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Or something like a comment thread where half the comments pointing out other governments do propaganda are flagged to hell, like this section.

pmlnr 8y ago
In this very case, the topic is how the country in the post is doing it. Isn't talking about another country a distraction from that?
- noobermin 8y ago
  The topic is propaganda, that other countries and organizations like companies do that is related to the topic. If that's unrelated, pointing out the random articles dealing with China ever is also unrelated. (A freaking article about the Moon lander for pete's sake) I don't think "China" is a reason enough for things to be under the same topic.
  - pmlnr 8y ago
    No, the topic is "How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument" which is the topic of the paper published. It's not "A paper on country propaganda".
    - noobermin 8y ago
      The paper is about the CCP's propaganda techniques on its own people, not driving numbers for nyt articles (US media). The people in this thread are tying it to other events that are related only because they have to do with China. That's what I mean in that it's tangentially related. I don't think tangentially related things are bad. I do think it's upsetting when some tangentially related things are bad but others aren't for strange reasons.
  - Lionsion 8y ago
    > pointing out the random articles dealing with China ever is also unrelated. (A freaking article about the Moon lander for pete's sake) Which was observed to have had anomalous commenting behavior. I think it's an important question to consider if the 50 Cent Party operates on non-Chinese forums, and the observation in that comment is relevant to that question. > The topic is propaganda, that other countries and organizations like companies do that is related to the topic. And the topic of the Xinjiang re-education camp thread, judging by the comments, must have been "everything bad that any country has ever done ever." /s
Sangermaine 8y ago
The inevitable "whataboutism" comments that any discussion of China generates are indeed just noise.
- noobermin 8y ago
  That's probably a good reason. The thing is I get sick of the moralizing that underlies all these threads, as if our media doesn't do the exact same thing. re: manufacturing consent. The thing is there's this strange, "uncanny" feeling I get whenever these things are shared too, all of a sudden, HN readers who are usually critical start to coalesce around a common fear of the other.
  - lstyls 8y ago
    > The thing is I get sick of the moralizing that underlies all these threads, as if our media doesn't do the exact same thing You do realize this is false equivalency / whataboutism?
  - Lionsion 8y ago
    > The thing is there's this strange, "uncanny" feeling I get whenever these things are shared too I posted this because I got super frustrated with all the derails and distractions that utterly destroyed the Xinjiang indoctrination camp post from yesterday. If you don't believe me you can look at my comment history.
    - noobermin 8y ago
      Okay, so I understand how you feel. The thing is I clicked on that post and the top comments are critical of indoctrination camps. There's one top-level comment you replied to that pointed out an irony given the imprisoned population here in the US. The article details, AFAICT, the CCP's attempts to spread propaganda to its own people, not to the west, although I have no doubts it does try to spread it elsewhere. So given that, what is the likelihood that most of the critical, anti-US comments are in fact CCP propaganda hires? I don't know, but it seems a little bit much to assume everything is a plot to subvert people's opinions. I'm not a propagandist. I agree with the sentiment in the comment on that article (I missed) about the US imprisoned population. People can disagree with you and point out opinions you disagree with. I said earlier, somewhat sarcastically, it sucks that people are pushing things in this comment thread and voting down and flagging comments that point out other countries do the same. I am always somewhat paranoid, and anyone would given Snowden leaks and having read history about things like COINTELPRO, etc., but it was somewhat tongue in cheek (yes, I'm not perfect, I say mean things online like most people). Do I really believe all of you are US gov't plants trying to sway people to be belligerent to China? I don't think so. I get we should keep our eyes open, but we should be willing to accept that there are people who disagree with us, and not everyone who disagrees with us is a Russian/Chinese/etc bot. I'm actually really bothered by the attitude online these days that calls everyone who disagrees with us as being an astroturf. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it really helps to further strengthen the echo chambers we've created for ourselves.
ucaetano 8y ago
Your post is pretty much the definition of whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

pmlnr 8y ago

In this very case, the topic is how the country in the post is doing it. Isn't talking about another country a distraction from that?

noobermin 8y ago
The topic is propaganda, that other countries and organizations like companies do that is related to the topic. If that's unrelated, pointing out the random articles dealing with China ever is also unrelated. (A freaking article about the Moon lander for pete's sake) I don't think "China" is a reason enough for things to be under the same topic.
- pmlnr 8y ago
  No, the topic is "How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument" which is the topic of the paper published. It's not "A paper on country propaganda".
  - noobermin 8y ago
    The paper is about the CCP's propaganda techniques on its own people, not driving numbers for nyt articles (US media). The people in this thread are tying it to other events that are related only because they have to do with China. That's what I mean in that it's tangentially related. I don't think tangentially related things are bad. I do think it's upsetting when some tangentially related things are bad but others aren't for strange reasons.
- Lionsion 8y ago
  > pointing out the random articles dealing with China ever is also unrelated. (A freaking article about the Moon lander for pete's sake) Which was observed to have had anomalous commenting behavior. I think it's an important question to consider if the 50 Cent Party operates on non-Chinese forums, and the observation in that comment is relevant to that question. > The topic is propaganda, that other countries and organizations like companies do that is related to the topic. And the topic of the Xinjiang re-education camp thread, judging by the comments, must have been "everything bad that any country has ever done ever." /s

Sangermaine 8y ago

The inevitable "whataboutism" comments that any discussion of China generates are indeed just noise.

noobermin 8y ago
That's probably a good reason. The thing is I get sick of the moralizing that underlies all these threads, as if our media doesn't do the exact same thing. re: manufacturing consent. The thing is there's this strange, "uncanny" feeling I get whenever these things are shared too, all of a sudden, HN readers who are usually critical start to coalesce around a common fear of the other.
- lstyls 8y ago
  > The thing is I get sick of the moralizing that underlies all these threads, as if our media doesn't do the exact same thing You do realize this is false equivalency / whataboutism?
- Lionsion 8y ago
  > The thing is there's this strange, "uncanny" feeling I get whenever these things are shared too I posted this because I got super frustrated with all the derails and distractions that utterly destroyed the Xinjiang indoctrination camp post from yesterday. If you don't believe me you can look at my comment history.
  - noobermin 8y ago
    Okay, so I understand how you feel. The thing is I clicked on that post and the top comments are critical of indoctrination camps. There's one top-level comment you replied to that pointed out an irony given the imprisoned population here in the US. The article details, AFAICT, the CCP's attempts to spread propaganda to its own people, not to the west, although I have no doubts it does try to spread it elsewhere. So given that, what is the likelihood that most of the critical, anti-US comments are in fact CCP propaganda hires? I don't know, but it seems a little bit much to assume everything is a plot to subvert people's opinions. I'm not a propagandist. I agree with the sentiment in the comment on that article (I missed) about the US imprisoned population. People can disagree with you and point out opinions you disagree with. I said earlier, somewhat sarcastically, it sucks that people are pushing things in this comment thread and voting down and flagging comments that point out other countries do the same. I am always somewhat paranoid, and anyone would given Snowden leaks and having read history about things like COINTELPRO, etc., but it was somewhat tongue in cheek (yes, I'm not perfect, I say mean things online like most people). Do I really believe all of you are US gov't plants trying to sway people to be belligerent to China? I don't think so. I get we should keep our eyes open, but we should be willing to accept that there are people who disagree with us, and not everyone who disagrees with us is a Russian/Chinese/etc bot. I'm actually really bothered by the attitude online these days that calls everyone who disagrees with us as being an astroturf. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it really helps to further strengthen the echo chambers we've created for ourselves.

ucaetano 8y ago

Your post is pretty much the definition of whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism