5 ms·

Hi HN - I left my job at reddit about a year and a half ago, and a few months later decided to try starting a non-profit and work on building a new site that wo

Hi HN - I left my job at reddit about a year and a half ago, and a few months later decided to try starting a non-profit and work on building a new site that would be able to address a lot of the issues that I felt were hurting online communities. I've kept it very quiet until recently, but have started telling people about it and inviting them to the alpha over the last couple of weeks. The site's still very minimal at this point (imagine a slightly-more-functional HN with separate "groups" for different subjects), but you're definitely welcome to invites. Since HN doesn't have private messaging (Tildes does!) please send me an email if you're interested in an invite, and feel free to ask questions here.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
se7entime 8y ago
To request an invite to the Tildes alpha, email invites@tildes.net. Do not email any other addresses to ask for an invite. source: https://docs.tildes.net/contact https://docs.tildes.net/contact
- pacmansyyu 8y ago
  I am sorry, I usually don't do this but I guess the person you're replying to is the creator of Tildes.
m0meni 8y ago
What's the tech stack?
- azban 8y ago
  from the docs: Here's some of the main technology being used on Tildes: Python 3.6 with the Pyramid web framework PostgreSQL 10 Redis 4 intercooler.js and jQuery.
- http-teapot 8y ago
  https://docs.tildes.net/technical-goals#use-modern-versions-of-simple-reliable-boring-technology https://docs.tildes.net/technical-goals#use-modern-versions-...
iooi 8y ago
> imagine a slightly-more-functional HN with separate "groups" for different subjects How do you compare the site to Reddit? Curious since you're pretty much branding it as an alternative to Reddit by disclosing your previous job there.
- Deimorz 8y ago
  It's going to have a lot of similarities to reddit - reddit does a lot of things right. However, there are also quite a few mechanics on reddit that are too ingrained now for them to ever be able to change, and some of those really hurt the site's ability to have high-quality content. So I'm hoping to try and address a lot of those issues with different or adjusted mechanics - finding a voting/ranking system that isn't biased towards "quick entertainment", moderation systems that don't result in communities needing to relocate to new subreddits all the time, and so on.
Semaphor 8y ago
Hi, I remember you ;) Anyway, quick question: How do you expect to prevent people using "troll" or "noise" comment tags as their alternative to a downvote button?
- Deimorz 8y ago
  I think the really key aspect is that we can recognize when someone is using tags improperly like that. Downvotes are generic, you can't really say that someone used one "wrong". So we can look at systems like the "meta-moderation" that Slashdot had, where you can ask other (trusted) users whether they think someone else is abusing their tools. If they are, you can start trusting their tags less, or eventually even take away their ability to use them. And if they also have to build up to being able to use tags in the first place, that makes it way more difficult to keep abusing something since they can't just create a new account to immediately circumvent any punishment.
  - Semaphor 8y ago
    Sounds good, thanks for the reply :) I'm mostly a passive user so I won't be requesting an invite, but I'll be looking forward to the launch :)
empath75 8y ago
Are you familiar with metafilter.com and their moderation model? They charge a one time $5 membership to join, and it's heavily moderated, and they don't tolerate trolls or jerks very long before banning them and returning their money. They're a small scale site, and have a handful of moderators, but requiring someone to lay out actual cash to post seems to deter a lot of the behavior you see at reddit where anybody can create as many sockpuppets as they want with no problem.
- pjc50 8y ago
  I thought they kept the money from banned people? Surely that's the point?
  - Maybestring 8y ago
    That's how SomethingAwful worked as well. While money isn't an equitable solution, and it gives the forum a financial incentive to ban users, I think the idea of forcing users to somehow put some skin in the game is a great idea.
- Deimorz 8y ago
  Definitely familiar with it, I used to use Metafilter quite a bit. I think it's an interesting approach, but overall I disagree pretty strongly with requiring people to pay to access the site. That cuts off a huge amount of people that can't justify spending $5 to be able to post. It's great from a perspective of reducing issues, but it also hurts the site and community in a lot of other invisible ways.
X-Istence 8y ago
On the announcement page you suggest not emailing you for an invite, yet here you are explicitly asking to be emailed for an invite. I'd like an invite, and would be very interested in seeing how you built your Pyramid application (I'm a core dev for Pyramid/WebOb/Waitress) when it goes open source.
- cfabbro 8y ago
  I think you are just misreading that. He only says don’t email deimos@tildes.net for invites. The contacts page says invite requests go to invites@tildes.net.
jpfed 8y ago
This looks really cool! There's a lot here that I agree with. I strongly recommend avoiding the urge to prematurely automate processes involving trust (or granting people additional powers). It would allow you to grow faster, but you don't need to grow fast. Trust signals are useful when they are costly (at least, costly to fake). And if your site can be driven by an API, that changes what is considered costly. Getting a clique of accounts that upvotes the same way you do is not so costly if you're just driving an API. It may be counterintuitive, but... imagine you have some metric that you were considering using as a criterion for granting trust to a user. Let's say you've got the "TrollPercent" metric that shows the percentage of someone's content has been tagged as trolling, or the "KeynesianBeautyVoter" metric that shows how well someone's votes correlate with everyone else's. Then rather than automatically changing that account's status on the basis of these metrics, their account is merely flagged for a human to review. A human moderator can then say "oh, that person's content really is a cut above" or "wait, this person has only ever accessed the site via the API and they've somehow upvoted hundreds of posts in the last 10 minutes..." Anyway, none of this concern is meant to detract from the essential goodness of the idea, and I hope this succeeds.
- Deimorz 8y ago
  Definitely agreed, I specifically decided to start the alpha with the site being quite minimal, instead of trying to build a bunch of complex systems up-front. I think it's really important that this kind of stuff gets built in an evolutionary sort of way. Trying to predict how humans will use a system before they're actually using it is almost impossible, and I'd much rather do it by seeing how things are being used in practice, and making adjustments based on that (as well as discussing with people how they think the changes will affect the site).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

se7entime 8y ago

To request an invite to the Tildes alpha, email invites@tildes.net. Do not email any other addresses to ask for an invite. source: https://docs.tildes.net/contact https://docs.tildes.net/contact

pacmansyyu 8y ago
I am sorry, I usually don't do this but I guess the person you're replying to is the creator of Tildes.

m0meni 8y ago

What's the tech stack?

azban 8y ago
from the docs: Here's some of the main technology being used on Tildes: Python 3.6 with the Pyramid web framework PostgreSQL 10 Redis 4 intercooler.js and jQuery.
http-teapot 8y ago
https://docs.tildes.net/technical-goals#use-modern-versions-of-simple-reliable-boring-technology https://docs.tildes.net/technical-goals#use-modern-versions-...

iooi 8y ago

> imagine a slightly-more-functional HN with separate "groups" for different subjects How do you compare the site to Reddit? Curious since you're pretty much branding it as an alternative to Reddit by disclosing your previous job there.

Deimorz 8y ago
It's going to have a lot of similarities to reddit - reddit does a lot of things right. However, there are also quite a few mechanics on reddit that are too ingrained now for them to ever be able to change, and some of those really hurt the site's ability to have high-quality content. So I'm hoping to try and address a lot of those issues with different or adjusted mechanics - finding a voting/ranking system that isn't biased towards "quick entertainment", moderation systems that don't result in communities needing to relocate to new subreddits all the time, and so on.

Semaphor 8y ago

Hi, I remember you ;) Anyway, quick question: How do you expect to prevent people using "troll" or "noise" comment tags as their alternative to a downvote button?

Deimorz 8y ago
I think the really key aspect is that we can recognize when someone is using tags improperly like that. Downvotes are generic, you can't really say that someone used one "wrong". So we can look at systems like the "meta-moderation" that Slashdot had, where you can ask other (trusted) users whether they think someone else is abusing their tools. If they are, you can start trusting their tags less, or eventually even take away their ability to use them. And if they also have to build up to being able to use tags in the first place, that makes it way more difficult to keep abusing something since they can't just create a new account to immediately circumvent any punishment.
- Semaphor 8y ago
  Sounds good, thanks for the reply :) I'm mostly a passive user so I won't be requesting an invite, but I'll be looking forward to the launch :)

empath75 8y ago

Are you familiar with metafilter.com and their moderation model? They charge a one time $5 membership to join, and it's heavily moderated, and they don't tolerate trolls or jerks very long before banning them and returning their money. They're a small scale site, and have a handful of moderators, but requiring someone to lay out actual cash to post seems to deter a lot of the behavior you see at reddit where anybody can create as many sockpuppets as they want with no problem.

pjc50 8y ago
I thought they kept the money from banned people? Surely that's the point?
- Maybestring 8y ago
  That's how SomethingAwful worked as well. While money isn't an equitable solution, and it gives the forum a financial incentive to ban users, I think the idea of forcing users to somehow put some skin in the game is a great idea.
Deimorz 8y ago
Definitely familiar with it, I used to use Metafilter quite a bit. I think it's an interesting approach, but overall I disagree pretty strongly with requiring people to pay to access the site. That cuts off a huge amount of people that can't justify spending $5 to be able to post. It's great from a perspective of reducing issues, but it also hurts the site and community in a lot of other invisible ways.

X-Istence 8y ago

On the announcement page you suggest not emailing you for an invite, yet here you are explicitly asking to be emailed for an invite. I'd like an invite, and would be very interested in seeing how you built your Pyramid application (I'm a core dev for Pyramid/WebOb/Waitress) when it goes open source.

cfabbro 8y ago
I think you are just misreading that. He only says don’t email deimos@tildes.net for invites. The contacts page says invite requests go to invites@tildes.net.

jpfed 8y ago

This looks really cool! There's a lot here that I agree with. I strongly recommend avoiding the urge to prematurely automate processes involving trust (or granting people additional powers). It would allow you to grow faster, but you don't need to grow fast. Trust signals are useful when they are costly (at least, costly to fake). And if your site can be driven by an API, that changes what is considered costly. Getting a clique of accounts that upvotes the same way you do is not so costly if you're just driving an API. It may be counterintuitive, but... imagine you have some metric that you were considering using as a criterion for granting trust to a user. Let's say you've got the "TrollPercent" metric that shows the percentage of someone's content has been tagged as trolling, or the "KeynesianBeautyVoter" metric that shows how well someone's votes correlate with everyone else's. Then rather than automatically changing that account's status on the basis of these metrics, their account is merely flagged for a human to review. A human moderator can then say "oh, that person's content really is a cut above" or "wait, this person has only ever accessed the site via the API and they've somehow upvoted hundreds of posts in the last 10 minutes..." Anyway, none of this concern is meant to detract from the essential goodness of the idea, and I hope this succeeds.

Deimorz 8y ago
Definitely agreed, I specifically decided to start the alpha with the site being quite minimal, instead of trying to build a bunch of complex systems up-front. I think it's really important that this kind of stuff gets built in an evolutionary sort of way. Trying to predict how humans will use a system before they're actually using it is almost impossible, and I'd much rather do it by seeing how things are being used in practice, and making adjustments based on that (as well as discussing with people how they think the changes will affect the site).