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Man I wish I could switch back to Vim. GUI frontends for Neovim has made me want Vim so bad, but I just can't get away from Kakoune. The model of select first,

Man I wish I could switch back to Vim. GUI frontends for Neovim has made me want Vim so bad, but I just can't get away from Kakoune. The model of select first, action after (reverse of vim) is so so much better for me. Kakoune just gives me so much clarity over I'm doing at any one time. I guessed too frequently in vim :/.

sushisource 8y ago
Really want to try kak but the lack of IDE plugins stops me completely. I pretty much exclusively use IntelliJ or VSCode with the vim plugin, especially in IntelliJ the auto completion is just so much better and so much less effort to set up than a million vim plugins.
- jean- 8y ago
  There's a WIP Kakoune mode plugin for VSCode, [0] which is unfortunately unusable and unmaintained. I keep checking every couple of months, hoping the developer will pick it up again, but so far no luck. [0]: https://github.com/glennsl/kakode https://github.com/glennsl/kakode
dozzie 8y ago
> The model of select first, action after (reverse of vim) is so so much better for me. You mean, like the visual modes in Vim? Where you select text before running a command on it?
- vanviegen 8y ago
  Yes, you could say that all selection operations work in visual mode by default. Combined with multi-cursor / multi-selection, this turns out to very powerful.
- tomsthumb 8y ago
  Sorry, which of the three visual selection modes are you referring to?
- notheguyouthink 8y ago
  Sure, but that's just one aspect. For me, it's the most meaningful one though.
  - dozzie 8y ago
    I get it that you have your reasons to use Neovim more than Vim, and a large number of them is probably difficult to articulate, but framing it like Vim had no mode for selecting text visually is unfair.
    - notheguyouthink 8y ago
      I don't think visual selections in vim work the same as in kakoune though, do they? It's a powerful primitive in Kakoune, from regex to multiple cursors. My vim knowledge on selection mode is quite limited however, so I can't directly compare them. Can you just turn on selection mode and use that all the time? I may have to try that, as it sounds like you're suggesting it's a first class feature in Vim. Something I never got the feeling of.
      - dozzie 8y ago
        > I don't think visual selections in vim work the same as in kakoune though, do they? I have no idea. I've never used Kakoune. > Can you just turn on selection mode and use that all the time? How would you use that? Have a text selected all the time or what?
        notheguyouthink 8y ago
        Not sure, I've not used selection mode all the time lol. You're the one who (due to my interpretation) implied Kakoune and Vim were similar on the text selection mode. Ie, even ignore advanced features, Kakoune fundamentally is permanently in a select->action mode, rather than vim's action->motion mode. You replied to my comment of the reversed select->action mode that Kakoune uses saying that Vim can do the same thing with Visual Selection mode. So that's why I asked, is that something I can just work in all the time? Because with Kakoune, I am working in that all the time. That's why I asked, because you countered saying Vim can do that, but I don't want to constantly go into visual mode. I work in Kakoune none stop like that, it's core to the editor. Can visual mode do that?
- jean- 8y ago
  It's much more powerful than that, though. Among other things, it integrates very well with Kakoune's excellent support for multiple cursors. You can get an idea of the kind of things that are possible from this demo: https://vimeo.com/82711574 https://vimeo.com/82711574
hjek 8y ago
The Qt "gui" front end for Neovim was pretty much indistinguishable from a terminal emulator, last time I tried it. I don't see the appeal in it. Kakoune looks pretty interesting on the other hand. It even has a Clippy. I'll be trying that one out!
- epage 8y ago
  neovim-gtk seems to add a little more https://github.com/daa84/neovim-gtk https://github.com/daa84/neovim-gtk Of course there is the other extreme of Oni https://github.com/onivim/oni https://github.com/onivim/oni
- notheguyouthink 8y ago
  Out of curiosity, how well did the Qt frontend for Neovim work for you? I've been wanting to try and make a frontend for Kakoune, but for times sake, I wanted to leverage existing frameworks. If it's possible to write an editor in Qt, perhaps I should look it up.
epage 8y ago
Kakoune's model is slick and occasionally tempts me but I stay with vim for the rich ecosystem of plugins and that its on nearly every system.

sushisource 8y ago

Really want to try kak but the lack of IDE plugins stops me completely. I pretty much exclusively use IntelliJ or VSCode with the vim plugin, especially in IntelliJ the auto completion is just so much better and so much less effort to set up than a million vim plugins.

jean- 8y ago
There's a WIP Kakoune mode plugin for VSCode, [0] which is unfortunately unusable and unmaintained. I keep checking every couple of months, hoping the developer will pick it up again, but so far no luck. [0]: https://github.com/glennsl/kakode https://github.com/glennsl/kakode

dozzie 8y ago

> The model of select first, action after (reverse of vim) is so so much better for me. You mean, like the visual modes in Vim? Where you select text before running a command on it?

vanviegen 8y ago
Yes, you could say that all selection operations work in visual mode by default. Combined with multi-cursor / multi-selection, this turns out to very powerful.
tomsthumb 8y ago
Sorry, which of the three visual selection modes are you referring to?
notheguyouthink 8y ago
Sure, but that's just one aspect. For me, it's the most meaningful one though.
- dozzie 8y ago
  I get it that you have your reasons to use Neovim more than Vim, and a large number of them is probably difficult to articulate, but framing it like Vim had no mode for selecting text visually is unfair.
  - notheguyouthink 8y ago
    I don't think visual selections in vim work the same as in kakoune though, do they? It's a powerful primitive in Kakoune, from regex to multiple cursors. My vim knowledge on selection mode is quite limited however, so I can't directly compare them. Can you just turn on selection mode and use that all the time? I may have to try that, as it sounds like you're suggesting it's a first class feature in Vim. Something I never got the feeling of.
    - dozzie 8y ago
      > I don't think visual selections in vim work the same as in kakoune though, do they? I have no idea. I've never used Kakoune. > Can you just turn on selection mode and use that all the time? How would you use that? Have a text selected all the time or what?
      - notheguyouthink 8y ago
        Not sure, I've not used selection mode all the time lol. You're the one who (due to my interpretation) implied Kakoune and Vim were similar on the text selection mode. Ie, even ignore advanced features, Kakoune fundamentally is permanently in a select->action mode, rather than vim's action->motion mode. You replied to my comment of the reversed select->action mode that Kakoune uses saying that Vim can do the same thing with Visual Selection mode. So that's why I asked, is that something I can just work in all the time? Because with Kakoune, I am working in that all the time. That's why I asked, because you countered saying Vim can do that, but I don't want to constantly go into visual mode. I work in Kakoune none stop like that, it's core to the editor. Can visual mode do that?
jean- 8y ago
It's much more powerful than that, though. Among other things, it integrates very well with Kakoune's excellent support for multiple cursors. You can get an idea of the kind of things that are possible from this demo: https://vimeo.com/82711574 https://vimeo.com/82711574

hjek 8y ago

The Qt "gui" front end for Neovim was pretty much indistinguishable from a terminal emulator, last time I tried it. I don't see the appeal in it. Kakoune looks pretty interesting on the other hand. It even has a Clippy. I'll be trying that one out!

epage 8y ago
neovim-gtk seems to add a little more https://github.com/daa84/neovim-gtk https://github.com/daa84/neovim-gtk Of course there is the other extreme of Oni https://github.com/onivim/oni https://github.com/onivim/oni
notheguyouthink 8y ago
Out of curiosity, how well did the Qt frontend for Neovim work for you? I've been wanting to try and make a frontend for Kakoune, but for times sake, I wanted to leverage existing frameworks. If it's possible to write an editor in Qt, perhaps I should look it up.

epage 8y ago

Kakoune's model is slick and occasionally tempts me but I stay with vim for the rich ecosystem of plugins and that its on nearly every system.