4 ms·

I never realized whiteboarding was an issue. I wish someone would would make one of these sites for open office free jobs.(not the softare)

fasouto 8y ago
+1 to this. Even better, I would love a site that classifies job offers/companies by: - Has an onboarding process for new hires - Has quiet working conditions / open office - Has clear requirements - Salary range - Allows remote working - Type of interview and time to get a response
tom_mellior 8y ago
StackOverflow's job board has the "Joel Test" part where employers posting jobs can check off the points from https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... that they fulfill. One of them is "quiet working conditions", which comes close. Before looking it up just now, I could have sworn the point was something like "every developer has a door they can close", but oh well. Anyway, I hoped you could search only for jobs where this box was checked by the company, but apparently not... EDIT: It does allow searching for minimal salary and remote jobs, among the wishes listed in a sibling comment.
- Clubber 8y ago
  Wow that would really turn the tables; a job board where companies must not only disclose their interviewing practices and durations but their office environment as well. It would be developer centric so developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for based on often hidden parameters. Just the transparency requirements would automatically filter out most the chaff companies. I might have to build that out of spite. :)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > Before looking it up just now, I could have sworn the point was something like "every developer has a door they can close", but oh well. EDIT: Ok, my mistake, my memory is failing me. "Doors that close" is used in a whole bunch of Joel blog posts, and "walls and doors" is used in the original Joel Test description. But WaybackMachine seems to confirm that the official label from the "Joel Test" has always been "quiet working conditions" and does not appear to have been changed.
  - tom_mellior 8y ago
    Sounds plausible, but the blog post from 2000 also has it as "Do programmers have quiet working conditions?" So unless Joel went back and rewrote the past, it might be our memories. I am fairly sure that he did have another blog post that stated explicitly that every developer at FogCreek had a door.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    I remember the "all developers should have offices" from Joel. Did he change his mind recently?
nguggs 8y ago
Check out https://www.jobiki.com https://www.jobiki.com. We built it in collaboration with people like yourself to search for companies based on information like that. Whether you want companies with pod or cubed desks, or open office. (Among MANY other things) Unfortunately we haven't yet expanded much out of the Midwest, so it MAY not be of use to you yet. But check it if your interested.
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  > Check out https://www.jobiki.com https://www.jobiki.com. I went there, typed in "developer" in the search box, and got dropped on a map zoomed in on the Kansas/Oklahoma border and a message saying my search didn't match anything. Took me a while to notice the "zoom out on the map" part. Not sure why I landed in the middle of nowhere in the US, I'm located in Europe. In any case, super unintuitive. Also, this might be an American thing I'm missing, but which (if any) option of "Pod Office Layout" or "Closed (Cubicle) Office Layout" corresponds to "proper walls and a proper door"? I'd also suggest adding a filter for minimum salary. Hope this helps.
  - nguggs 8y ago
    Thanks for checking it out and your feedback! I can make some changes to hopefully clear up some confusion. On Jobiki, we don't have job postings. Just companies and data about them. So the "minimum salary" and "developer" searches are more job related, while we are more company related. Either way, helpful feedback. ----------------- As for the "proper walls and a proper door" aspect, are there developer/traditional employee jobs in Europe that can have a real office? In the US, unless you are a manager, executive, very experienced employee, you don't usually get an actual office. Maybe its more common in Europe?
    - Melchizedek 8y ago
      At least in Scandinavia I'd say it's fairly common to have a real office. It seems the cubicle thing never really caught on here, but now there's a trend toward open plan offices, unfortunately. Software companies seem to be among the worst in this regard. I have a real, quiet office with lots of daylight. That's actually one of the reasons I'm staying at this job. That, and the fact that I'm not subjected to low-status micromanagement techniques like Scrum. In short, I have working conditions befitting a qualified adult.
JamieF1 8y ago
That's not a bad idea. I think I'll make something like this, a site that let's you search for dev jobs with filters that devs actually care about. Any other suggestions for filters?

fasouto 8y ago

+1 to this. Even better, I would love a site that classifies job offers/companies by: - Has an onboarding process for new hires - Has quiet working conditions / open office - Has clear requirements - Salary range - Allows remote working - Type of interview and time to get a response

tom_mellior 8y ago

StackOverflow's job board has the "Joel Test" part where employers posting jobs can check off the points from https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... that they fulfill. One of them is "quiet working conditions", which comes close. Before looking it up just now, I could have sworn the point was something like "every developer has a door they can close", but oh well. Anyway, I hoped you could search only for jobs where this box was checked by the company, but apparently not... EDIT: It does allow searching for minimal salary and remote jobs, among the wishes listed in a sibling comment.

Clubber 8y ago
Wow that would really turn the tables; a job board where companies must not only disclose their interviewing practices and durations but their office environment as well. It would be developer centric so developers can pick and choose the companies they want to work for based on often hidden parameters. Just the transparency requirements would automatically filter out most the chaff companies. I might have to build that out of spite. :)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
maxsilver 8y ago
> Before looking it up just now, I could have sworn the point was something like "every developer has a door they can close", but oh well. EDIT: Ok, my mistake, my memory is failing me. "Doors that close" is used in a whole bunch of Joel blog posts, and "walls and doors" is used in the original Joel Test description. But WaybackMachine seems to confirm that the official label from the "Joel Test" has always been "quiet working conditions" and does not appear to have been changed.
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  Sounds plausible, but the blog post from 2000 also has it as "Do programmers have quiet working conditions?" So unless Joel went back and rewrote the past, it might be our memories. I am fairly sure that he did have another blog post that stated explicitly that every developer at FogCreek had a door.
- Clubber 8y ago
  I remember the "all developers should have offices" from Joel. Did he change his mind recently?

nguggs 8y ago

Check out https://www.jobiki.com https://www.jobiki.com. We built it in collaboration with people like yourself to search for companies based on information like that. Whether you want companies with pod or cubed desks, or open office. (Among MANY other things) Unfortunately we haven't yet expanded much out of the Midwest, so it MAY not be of use to you yet. But check it if your interested.

tom_mellior 8y ago
> Check out https://www.jobiki.com https://www.jobiki.com. I went there, typed in "developer" in the search box, and got dropped on a map zoomed in on the Kansas/Oklahoma border and a message saying my search didn't match anything. Took me a while to notice the "zoom out on the map" part. Not sure why I landed in the middle of nowhere in the US, I'm located in Europe. In any case, super unintuitive. Also, this might be an American thing I'm missing, but which (if any) option of "Pod Office Layout" or "Closed (Cubicle) Office Layout" corresponds to "proper walls and a proper door"? I'd also suggest adding a filter for minimum salary. Hope this helps.
- nguggs 8y ago
  Thanks for checking it out and your feedback! I can make some changes to hopefully clear up some confusion. On Jobiki, we don't have job postings. Just companies and data about them. So the "minimum salary" and "developer" searches are more job related, while we are more company related. Either way, helpful feedback. ----------------- As for the "proper walls and a proper door" aspect, are there developer/traditional employee jobs in Europe that can have a real office? In the US, unless you are a manager, executive, very experienced employee, you don't usually get an actual office. Maybe its more common in Europe?
  - Melchizedek 8y ago
    At least in Scandinavia I'd say it's fairly common to have a real office. It seems the cubicle thing never really caught on here, but now there's a trend toward open plan offices, unfortunately. Software companies seem to be among the worst in this regard. I have a real, quiet office with lots of daylight. That's actually one of the reasons I'm staying at this job. That, and the fact that I'm not subjected to low-status micromanagement techniques like Scrum. In short, I have working conditions befitting a qualified adult.

JamieF1 8y ago

That's not a bad idea. I think I'll make something like this, a site that let's you search for dev jobs with filters that devs actually care about. Any other suggestions for filters?