4 ms·

Even if it's these elusive "points"?

jacquesm 16y ago
Points bought and redeemable for cash that you can use to pay people are money, period.
byoung2 16y ago
It's basically the same setup as iStockPhoto. There, you buy "credits" for some arbitrary exchange rate that you can use to buy photos from other members, who then exchange the points for payouts. There is a period of time where the credits are bought and not used for purchase, and a time where they are used but not redeemed. There are plenty of businesses who handle this without a problem, so I doubt he'll have trouble setting it up.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  No, that's definitely not the same. There is no potential for fraud and / or tax evasion and / or money laundering in that situation. With a wallet system you have those in spades.
  - byoung2 16y ago
    Actually, it's exactly the same. In both systems, I deposit my money with the company (RubyPay or iStockPhoto) in exchange for a certain amount of points/credits. They hold onto my money until I buy something. On iStockPhoto I buy a few pictures, on RubyPay maybe I buy access to a premium blog post. The points are transferred from my account to the seller's account. The seller then redeems the points/credits for a payout by check. Is there a difference between the two that I missed (besides the fact that iStockphoto screens submissions)? There are ample opportunities for fraud on both sites. For example, say I'm a drug dealer and I need to collect illicit funds from customers. I could post a digital image on iStockphoto and require my customers to buy it before I give them the drugs. Or if I already had a stack of cash I needed to clean I could set up fake accounts to buy my own images, and pay taxes on the profit.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      That must be why VISA has explicitly forbidden stock photo bureaus from using their cards without special permission in their merchant account contracts. Oh, wait, that was wallet systems after all...
      - byoung2 16y ago
        So maybe both RubyPay and iStockphoto fall into the same category that is quite different from wallet systems? A category that includes sites that use virtual currency, but don't store your VISA credentials for future purchases.
        jacquesm 16y ago
        RubyPay is - as far as I can see at this moment - a textbook example of a wallet system, and iStockphoto is a typical example of a pre-pay system. The public could not pay each other using iStockphoto points, it's stricly a one-way street where the photographers get an automatic payment based on the number of credits worth of stuff that got sold. They're not going to go and re-use their credits to buy other stuff.
        byoung2 16y ago
        iStockphoto points, it's stricly a one-way street where the photographers get an automatic payment based on the number of credits worth of stuff that got sold That's what RubyPay describes here: https://www.rubypay.com/pages/points https://www.rubypay.com/pages/points. If I sell 7500 points worth of whatever, I get $50. The only difference between the two is that RubyPay lets you prepay for an arbitrary service, not just stock photography. They're not going to go and re-use their credits to buy other stuff. On iStockPhoto, you can use the credits you earn to buy other items. RubyPay doesn't make it clear whether points you earn can be used to buy other services or whether they have to be redeemed for a check. iStockPhoto looks more like a wallet system than RubyPay actually.

Points bought and redeemable for cash that you can use to pay people are money, period.

It's basically the same setup as iStockPhoto. There, you buy "credits" for some arbitrary exchange rate that you can use to buy photos from other members, who then exchange the points for payouts. There is a period of time where the credits are bought and not used for purchase, and a time where they are used but not redeemed. There are plenty of businesses who handle this without a problem, so I doubt he'll have trouble setting it up.

jacquesm 16y ago
No, that's definitely not the same. There is no potential for fraud and / or tax evasion and / or money laundering in that situation. With a wallet system you have those in spades.
- byoung2 16y ago
  Actually, it's exactly the same. In both systems, I deposit my money with the company (RubyPay or iStockPhoto) in exchange for a certain amount of points/credits. They hold onto my money until I buy something. On iStockPhoto I buy a few pictures, on RubyPay maybe I buy access to a premium blog post. The points are transferred from my account to the seller's account. The seller then redeems the points/credits for a payout by check. Is there a difference between the two that I missed (besides the fact that iStockphoto screens submissions)? There are ample opportunities for fraud on both sites. For example, say I'm a drug dealer and I need to collect illicit funds from customers. I could post a digital image on iStockphoto and require my customers to buy it before I give them the drugs. Or if I already had a stack of cash I needed to clean I could set up fake accounts to buy my own images, and pay taxes on the profit.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    That must be why VISA has explicitly forbidden stock photo bureaus from using their cards without special permission in their merchant account contracts. Oh, wait, that was wallet systems after all...
    - byoung2 16y ago
      So maybe both RubyPay and iStockphoto fall into the same category that is quite different from wallet systems? A category that includes sites that use virtual currency, but don't store your VISA credentials for future purchases.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        RubyPay is - as far as I can see at this moment - a textbook example of a wallet system, and iStockphoto is a typical example of a pre-pay system. The public could not pay each other using iStockphoto points, it's stricly a one-way street where the photographers get an automatic payment based on the number of credits worth of stuff that got sold. They're not going to go and re-use their credits to buy other stuff.
        byoung2 16y ago
        iStockphoto points, it's stricly a one-way street where the photographers get an automatic payment based on the number of credits worth of stuff that got sold That's what RubyPay describes here: https://www.rubypay.com/pages/points https://www.rubypay.com/pages/points. If I sell 7500 points worth of whatever, I get $50. The only difference between the two is that RubyPay lets you prepay for an arbitrary service, not just stock photography. They're not going to go and re-use their credits to buy other stuff. On iStockPhoto, you can use the credits you earn to buy other items. RubyPay doesn't make it clear whether points you earn can be used to buy other services or whether they have to be redeemed for a check. iStockPhoto looks more like a wallet system than RubyPay actually.