3 ms·

I just want to point out that most of the taxes you pay in the US do not go to the upkeep of society you may benefit from (which we can define as schools, polic

by il 16y ago

I just want to point out that most of the taxes you pay in the US do not go to the upkeep of society you may benefit from (which we can define as schools, police, education, etc). Most of your tax money either goes to propping up a bloated military-industrial complex, maintaining bases overseas, counterterrorism ops, foreign aid to oppressive regimes, etc etc. If you're a pro-tax liberal you're probably against high defense spending, but you're perfectly happy to keep funding it with your tax dollars. Just food for thought. EDIT: If you want to quibble, the majority of discretionary spending is military(not counting Social Security/Medicare). Since that's where your income tax dollars go, it's a reasonable argument to make.

kenjackson 16y ago
These claims need citations. And remember, we don't just pay federal income taxes. We also pay state incomes tax (most states), sales tax (most states and locales), property tax, item taxes (like luxury taxes), FICA tax, etc... While I'm sure a LOT of money goes to the military, I'm not sure I believe it is most of it.
- il 16y ago
  Maybe if more Americans knew how much we were spending on war they would be less inclined to support it. "Death and Taxes" is a well-known and clear infographic of government spending: http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/ http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/ It shows military and security spending as 63% of the 2011 budget(895 billion). The discussion here seems mostly about the income tax, so I'm focusing on that. I'm not morally opposed to paying taxes to live in a civilized society. I AM opposed to two thirds of my money being spent on instruments of death and building up the American war machine.
  - DannoHung 16y ago
    63% of the discretionary budget. If you look at non-discretionary spending as well, you'll see that it's like.. less than 20% of the money spent.
    - il 16y ago
      Right, all I was saying is that the majority of the _income tax_ you pay goes to military spending. I'm not counting FICA, as nobody is discussing raising or lower those taxes.
lutorm 16y ago
It's true that if I had grown up in the US and not in Sweden, I might be more tax-averse than I ended up being... There is a difference between what you get in practice for paying your taxes in the US and the principle of taxation in general. One of the things that amaze/frustrate me about the US taxes is that noone ever suggests that maybe the military budget could be cut by 50% or so...
- nollidge 16y ago
  Oh, people suggest it often enough, but they're successfully shouted down afterward (which is probably why you haven't really heard of them).
gvb 16y ago
Statistics are only a google search away. At least make an attempt at a citation to support your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... (FY 2009 per the actual graphic, despite the file name)
jbooth 16y ago
"If you're a pro-tax liberal" Have you ever, once in your life, met someone who identified as a "pro-tax liberal"? Didn't think so.
- il 16y ago
  I'm just drawing a distinction. I would describe myself as an anti tax liberal.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Eh, I think both of those are silly framings. Nobody likes paying taxes. I'm a "pro balanced budget" liberal, and that meant that throughout the Bush years I was saying "Hey, we're gonna have to pay for these tax cuts eventually", while simultaneously saying "Hey, let's cut defense and homeland security spending because at least 1/2 of it is BS that doesn't make us safer." Not like I love the idea of paying more taxes, or of quote "big government" - I just give basic arithmetic a lot of respect.
    - il 16y ago
      If nobody likes paying taxes then, why don't we as a society legislate ourselves lower taxes and cuts in defense spending? I believe there is a famous quote about that.

by il 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

These claims need citations. And remember, we don't just pay federal income taxes. We also pay state incomes tax (most states), sales tax (most states and locales), property tax, item taxes (like luxury taxes), FICA tax, etc... While I'm sure a LOT of money goes to the military, I'm not sure I believe it is most of it.

il 16y ago
Maybe if more Americans knew how much we were spending on war they would be less inclined to support it. "Death and Taxes" is a well-known and clear infographic of government spending: http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/ http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/ It shows military and security spending as 63% of the 2011 budget(895 billion). The discussion here seems mostly about the income tax, so I'm focusing on that. I'm not morally opposed to paying taxes to live in a civilized society. I AM opposed to two thirds of my money being spent on instruments of death and building up the American war machine.
- DannoHung 16y ago
  63% of the discretionary budget. If you look at non-discretionary spending as well, you'll see that it's like.. less than 20% of the money spent.
  - il 16y ago
    Right, all I was saying is that the majority of the _income tax_ you pay goes to military spending. I'm not counting FICA, as nobody is discussing raising or lower those taxes.

lutorm 16y ago

It's true that if I had grown up in the US and not in Sweden, I might be more tax-averse than I ended up being... There is a difference between what you get in practice for paying your taxes in the US and the principle of taxation in general. One of the things that amaze/frustrate me about the US taxes is that noone ever suggests that maybe the military budget could be cut by 50% or so...

nollidge 16y ago
Oh, people suggest it often enough, but they're successfully shouted down afterward (which is probably why you haven't really heard of them).

gvb 16y ago

Statistics are only a google search away. At least make an attempt at a citation to support your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... (FY 2009 per the actual graphic, despite the file name)

jbooth 16y ago

"If you're a pro-tax liberal" Have you ever, once in your life, met someone who identified as a "pro-tax liberal"? Didn't think so.

il 16y ago
I'm just drawing a distinction. I would describe myself as an anti tax liberal.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Eh, I think both of those are silly framings. Nobody likes paying taxes. I'm a "pro balanced budget" liberal, and that meant that throughout the Bush years I was saying "Hey, we're gonna have to pay for these tax cuts eventually", while simultaneously saying "Hey, let's cut defense and homeland security spending because at least 1/2 of it is BS that doesn't make us safer." Not like I love the idea of paying more taxes, or of quote "big government" - I just give basic arithmetic a lot of respect.
  - il 16y ago
    If nobody likes paying taxes then, why don't we as a society legislate ourselves lower taxes and cuts in defense spending? I believe there is a famous quote about that.