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VR/AR is still in its "our users are completely untrained" skeuomorphic UI phase. There's been a tunnel-vision focus on gaming, Virtual Reality, and immersion.

VR/AR is still in its "our users are completely untrained" skeuomorphic UI phase. There's been a tunnel-vision focus on gaming, Virtual Reality, and immersion. The design space for HMD and body tracking UIs is much larger than skeuomorphic VR. I've liked attaching eyeballs to my hand, to explore graphs without gymnastics or manipulation. Using aphysical kind-of-planar workspaces, to permit subpixel resolution on integrated graphics. Remapping motion, to permit fast ergonomic input from resting hands. Non-skeuomorphic UIs aren't getting much attention yet. And even awareness of that is not yet widespread. But there's a lot of fun incoming.

ss248 8y ago
Attaching eyeballs to your hands sounds really fun actually, but we are already walking a pretty thin line just trying to not make people sick. Not sure experiments like this would be comfortable for most people, so this is why i think everyone usually sticks to skeuomorphic UIs. But i agree that, VR-design wise, we are very primitive right now.
- baby 8y ago
  I've played a number or game that replaces your hand with the object you're using. Or hell, most of the time you see the vive controllers and not hands in place of your own.
  - ss248 8y ago
    >game that replaces your hand with the object Yeah, this is the common practice. But by "attaching eyeballs to your hand" i though he meant decoupling the camera from HMD tracking and attaching it to the controller tracking. Like you move your hand and the view changes. Something similar to The Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth [1]. Research shows[2,3], that brain adapts to the unusual perspective quite fast. So technically, after a while, the brain should accommodate and it would start feeling "natural". [1] https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/slendermanconnection/images/4/4c/Pn.jpg https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/slendermanconnection/ima... [2] http://www.yorku.ca/harris/pubs/adria_inducing_preprint.pdf http://www.yorku.ca/harris/pubs/adria_inducing_preprint.pdf [3] https://youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ
- mncharity 8y ago
  > walking a pretty thin line just trying to not make people sick Yes and no. There seems a lot of confusion about that. About which design constraints are coming from which goals. Yes, for the common style of immersive gaming. But when I'm working, I'm usually down around 30 fps with high variance, running on integrated graphics. What constitutes a "horrible" "immersion-breaking" "visual artifact"? And how much will you pay to avoid it? I'm looking at a laptop's desktop. It's obviously a display panel. And not my wooden desk. And that's fine. When looking at my HMD "desktop", it's also obviously a panel. And not my office. And that's also fine. Using emacs isn't fighting slimey zombies. Usually. Paper novels can be immersive. Even if you sometimes notice turning a page. The design goal "avoid reminding the user they're wearing an HMD" is a very challenging one. It prunes the design space, discouraging many things. Camera passthrough AR. Lag. Different objects having different lag. Visible boundaries in display space. And so on. For example. If you mostly care about text, then you want to see unblurred pixels, which means only the center half of the lens-blurred display is useful. Passthrough AR can provide balance even at low fps. So it can be shown beyond the center. Which creates a visible boundary in display space. And that's fine. And if when you turn your head, some graphical elements slowly chase others across the screen, that's fine too. So now you can run on old Intel integrated graphics. It's a different point in design space from fighting zombies in a warehouse. And it has different design constraints. So when people say "VR requires X", that's worth translating as "SteamVR games require X". And it can be fun to consider other things you can do with a tracked head mounted display.
  - ss248 8y ago
    >The design goal "avoid reminding the user they're wearing an HMD" There is a difference between design decisions based on "striving to achieve presence" and design decisions based on "not make people vomit". And high fps with good tracking is closer to "not make people vomit" group. I agree that it's okay to break presence to do something (i would trade presence for fun for example) and let user push the limit if he can handle it, but you have to understand that VR is already a niche market, so devs usually are just playing it safe.
    - mncharity 8y ago

ss248 8y ago

Attaching eyeballs to your hands sounds really fun actually, but we are already walking a pretty thin line just trying to not make people sick. Not sure experiments like this would be comfortable for most people, so this is why i think everyone usually sticks to skeuomorphic UIs. But i agree that, VR-design wise, we are very primitive right now.

baby 8y ago
I've played a number or game that replaces your hand with the object you're using. Or hell, most of the time you see the vive controllers and not hands in place of your own.
- ss248 8y ago
  >game that replaces your hand with the object Yeah, this is the common practice. But by "attaching eyeballs to your hand" i though he meant decoupling the camera from HMD tracking and attaching it to the controller tracking. Like you move your hand and the view changes. Something similar to The Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth [1]. Research shows[2,3], that brain adapts to the unusual perspective quite fast. So technically, after a while, the brain should accommodate and it would start feeling "natural". [1] https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/slendermanconnection/images/4/4c/Pn.jpg https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/slendermanconnection/ima... [2] http://www.yorku.ca/harris/pubs/adria_inducing_preprint.pdf http://www.yorku.ca/harris/pubs/adria_inducing_preprint.pdf [3] https://youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=4PQAc_Z2OfQ
mncharity 8y ago
> walking a pretty thin line just trying to not make people sick Yes and no. There seems a lot of confusion about that. About which design constraints are coming from which goals. Yes, for the common style of immersive gaming. But when I'm working, I'm usually down around 30 fps with high variance, running on integrated graphics. What constitutes a "horrible" "immersion-breaking" "visual artifact"? And how much will you pay to avoid it? I'm looking at a laptop's desktop. It's obviously a display panel. And not my wooden desk. And that's fine. When looking at my HMD "desktop", it's also obviously a panel. And not my office. And that's also fine. Using emacs isn't fighting slimey zombies. Usually. Paper novels can be immersive. Even if you sometimes notice turning a page. The design goal "avoid reminding the user they're wearing an HMD" is a very challenging one. It prunes the design space, discouraging many things. Camera passthrough AR. Lag. Different objects having different lag. Visible boundaries in display space. And so on. For example. If you mostly care about text, then you want to see unblurred pixels, which means only the center half of the lens-blurred display is useful. Passthrough AR can provide balance even at low fps. So it can be shown beyond the center. Which creates a visible boundary in display space. And that's fine. And if when you turn your head, some graphical elements slowly chase others across the screen, that's fine too. So now you can run on old Intel integrated graphics. It's a different point in design space from fighting zombies in a warehouse. And it has different design constraints. So when people say "VR requires X", that's worth translating as "SteamVR games require X". And it can be fun to consider other things you can do with a tracked head mounted display.
- ss248 8y ago
  >The design goal "avoid reminding the user they're wearing an HMD" There is a difference between design decisions based on "striving to achieve presence" and design decisions based on "not make people vomit". And high fps with good tracking is closer to "not make people vomit" group. I agree that it's okay to break presence to do something (i would trade presence for fun for example) and let user push the limit if he can handle it, but you have to understand that VR is already a niche market, so devs usually are just playing it safe.
  - mncharity 8y ago