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Populations can grow geometrically at any time. What matters to a particular "branch" is that it remains a cohesive and clearly demarcated appendage while it we

Populations can grow geometrically at any time. What matters to a particular "branch" is that it remains a cohesive and clearly demarcated appendage while it weathers hostile conditions. Grafting on another branch is what ensures its demise as a distinct entity.

jacquesm 8y ago
Hehe, there is no society on earth right now that never incorporated substantial numbers of outsiders. The relatively placid world that we live in today is in no way the historical norm. Hostile conditions are the norm. Ask the Palestinians, the Iraqi, the Iranians, the Panamanians, the Native Americans and Native Canadians and lots of people living elsewhere in Europe and the world (or anybody else for that matter, but for first or second generation immigrants it is obvious) to see how far back their roots go. In most cases you won't have to go much further than three or four generations (assuming you can trace them back at all) before you land abroad and in many cases in wildly different cultures due to wars, colonialism, trade, famine or natural disasters. Japan is due to its state as an island an exception, not the rule and even Japan is subject to the maxim that you use it or you lose it.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  It is interesting that you listed a number of peoples who have at various times been subjected to genocide because of their initial accommodation of outside populations in your rebuttal of my affirmation that Japan refusing to compromise its stance on immigration is vital to its survival as a cohesive and distinct nation. >you use it or you lose it Please explain in direct language the point your deployment of this aphorism was intended to convey as I find it wholly inapplicable.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    > It is interesting that you listed a number of peoples who have at various times been subjected to genocide because of their initial accommodation of outside populations in your rebuttal of my affirmation that Japan refusing to compromise its stance on immigration is vital to its survival as a cohesive and distinct nation. Exactly for that reason. Note how the Japanese have had their various wars of conquest in the past. At that time they had no problem with their 'stance on immigration'.
    - magduf 8y ago
      You're not answering the question at all. Being an imperialist power and oppressing other people is good for you as a society if you win (just ask the British; they're still enjoying the fruits of their imperial policy after all this time), even if other people find it morally reprehensible. This doesn't equate in any way to believing that accepting immigration is helpful to the society. Just look at modern-day China: the Han Chinese ethnic group dominates, and oppresses all the minority groups. China is not a country with a lot of immigration either (nor do they have a shortage of people). So far, it seems to be working out for them, though admittedly it sucks for the minorities.
mc32 8y ago
Actually I agree with you, if a society at some point believes it has progressed enough and feel happy enough, there is no internal reason to pursue growth at any expense. Japan may decide that being self sufficient and self reliant offers them the best return on their lifestyle.

jacquesm 8y ago

Hehe, there is no society on earth right now that never incorporated substantial numbers of outsiders. The relatively placid world that we live in today is in no way the historical norm. Hostile conditions are the norm. Ask the Palestinians, the Iraqi, the Iranians, the Panamanians, the Native Americans and Native Canadians and lots of people living elsewhere in Europe and the world (or anybody else for that matter, but for first or second generation immigrants it is obvious) to see how far back their roots go. In most cases you won't have to go much further than three or four generations (assuming you can trace them back at all) before you land abroad and in many cases in wildly different cultures due to wars, colonialism, trade, famine or natural disasters. Japan is due to its state as an island an exception, not the rule and even Japan is subject to the maxim that you use it or you lose it.

Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
It is interesting that you listed a number of peoples who have at various times been subjected to genocide because of their initial accommodation of outside populations in your rebuttal of my affirmation that Japan refusing to compromise its stance on immigration is vital to its survival as a cohesive and distinct nation. >you use it or you lose it Please explain in direct language the point your deployment of this aphorism was intended to convey as I find it wholly inapplicable.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  > It is interesting that you listed a number of peoples who have at various times been subjected to genocide because of their initial accommodation of outside populations in your rebuttal of my affirmation that Japan refusing to compromise its stance on immigration is vital to its survival as a cohesive and distinct nation. Exactly for that reason. Note how the Japanese have had their various wars of conquest in the past. At that time they had no problem with their 'stance on immigration'.
  - magduf 8y ago
    You're not answering the question at all. Being an imperialist power and oppressing other people is good for you as a society if you win (just ask the British; they're still enjoying the fruits of their imperial policy after all this time), even if other people find it morally reprehensible. This doesn't equate in any way to believing that accepting immigration is helpful to the society. Just look at modern-day China: the Han Chinese ethnic group dominates, and oppresses all the minority groups. China is not a country with a lot of immigration either (nor do they have a shortage of people). So far, it seems to be working out for them, though admittedly it sucks for the minorities.

mc32 8y ago

Actually I agree with you, if a society at some point believes it has progressed enough and feel happy enough, there is no internal reason to pursue growth at any expense. Japan may decide that being self sufficient and self reliant offers them the best return on their lifestyle.