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Italians, Irish, and most of the other immigrants from that time were Europeans who had a lot in common with Americans culturally.

spamizbad 8y ago
Not really true, especially for southern Sicilians Italians They shared neither language nor religion (US was overwhelmingly protestant). At the time, they were considered a distinct race from your typical white American due to their Sicilian heritage. Their diet was also significantly different, to the point where some states actually sent out social workers teaching Italian families to cook "American" foods -- the fear being their pasta-heavy diets would prevent them from integrating. Politically, they were far more pro-labor and were viewed as agitators, socialists and anarchists -- far removed from the political mainstream during the roaring 20s. They were hated and feared enough that there was a mass lynching of 11 Italian-Americans in Louisiana.
dv_dt 8y ago
I don't think you're thinking of the historical details to say that in such a blase manner. The path to integration went through periods much more violent and contentious than anything we see today.
- cheeseomlit 8y ago
  I'm aware of how immigrants were treated back then and I'm not condoning it. That still doesn't change the fact that they came from cultures that IMO were quite compatible with the USAs considering their common origin and values. I think the current situation in Europe, and other instances of mass migration in history, demonstrate that not all cultures are compatible with each other
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    Like Cubans after the revolution, or Iranians after their revolution, or maybe the mass of Vietnamese after the war? What actual cultures are you saying are incompatible? America has worked with them all and despite hand-wringing over "compatibility". There is a much stronger case to be made human beings are humans in the end and that it just takes time.
  - chaostheory 8y ago
    That’s not true. When German immigrants were new, no one believed they would integrate since they refused to give up speaking German. Catholics like the Irish were viewed with suspicion because they revered a pope. America’s secret superpower is the ability to assimilate pretty much any people within four generations give or take
  - yborg 8y ago
    So, only white people can assimilate then? The now many generations of people of Hispanic origin that are part of the American story would seem to indicate you are wrong. As is the case with the now multiple generations of Koreans and particularly Japanese, who remain part of the US story even after being put into concentration camps because of precisely the same sort of prejudice, that they were somehow inherently un-American due to their "cultural incompatibility", i.e. non-whiteness, unlike the millions of German-Americans in the US at the time. The Muslims will (continue to) integrate as well. It takes a couple of generations.
  - adamsea 8y ago
    > I think the current situation in Europe, and other instances of mass migration in history, demonstrate that not all cultures are compatible with each other. Japanese Americans? Chinese Americans? Indian Americans? Plus, the very concept of some sort of empirical “cultural incompatibility” seems highly questionable. I mean, it’s not like cultures change over time or anything like that.
  - unepipe 8y ago
    "cultural compatibility"... Sounds like a concept created by someone who hasn't met people from very many cultures.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Which historical details? The fact that the US was extremely racist but the immigrants managed to integrate by focusing on work and adapting instead of spiting and complaining about the host country?
Analemma_ 8y ago
That's not what anti-immigration crusaders said at the time. It was a common belief that Italian and Irish immigrants (who were mostly Catholic) could never fit in to Protestant American society. Your statement is pure revisionism.
jaredklewis 8y ago
The Chinese immigrated to the US at a similar time as the Irish and Italians. The more than 3 million Chinese living in the US today seem plenty well integrated and I don’t think China and America are particular close in terms of culture.
- cheeseomlit 8y ago
  That's a fair point, I guess I'd make a distinction between similarity and compatibility
- gowld 8y ago
  And the Chinese immigrants were met with the same fierce racism that meets Hispanics and Arabs and Africans today.
  - loggedinmyphone 8y ago
    Historically the Hispanic and African populations were in the US a good deal before the Chinese.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    In France the Chinese are the preferred targets of gangs (run by whom?) http://www.france24.com/en/20160908-france-chinese-community-targeted-crime-aubervilliers-protest http://www.france24.com/en/20160908-france-chinese-community...
- jandrese 8y ago
  And also Irish. Despite being white and christian the Irish faced considerable discrimination around the turn of the century.
  - kaitai 8y ago
    As recently as 1998 I had a preacher tell my Irish Catholic friend that she still had a chance to accept Jesus and be saved. There is still a feeling that Catholics are not really Christian in some circles, and that was an important factor in justifying the discrimination you mention!
jpao79 8y ago
This movie, Gangs of New York, by Martin Scorsese about New York City during a period of Irish immigration might suggest otherwise. I recall attempting to watch it when it came out on DVD but it was too violent for a Friday night: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_a...
adamsea 8y ago
Almost every single movie by Martin Scorsese would say otherwise. Seriously, though, Catholics and Protestants? There was a reason it was a big deal that Kennedy was the first Catholic president.
baal232 8y ago
Back then, Americans didn't see it that way. There was a widespread suspicion that Catholicism was incompatible with democracy.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > There was a widespread suspicion that Catholicism was incompatible with democracy. And that was the secularized, polite face of the common religious belief that both the Papacy as an office and the particular occupants of that office were the literal referent of the biblical Antichrist, and that “Papists” were, therefore, followers of the Antichrist.

spamizbad 8y ago

Not really true, especially for southern Sicilians Italians They shared neither language nor religion (US was overwhelmingly protestant). At the time, they were considered a distinct race from your typical white American due to their Sicilian heritage. Their diet was also significantly different, to the point where some states actually sent out social workers teaching Italian families to cook "American" foods -- the fear being their pasta-heavy diets would prevent them from integrating. Politically, they were far more pro-labor and were viewed as agitators, socialists and anarchists -- far removed from the political mainstream during the roaring 20s. They were hated and feared enough that there was a mass lynching of 11 Italian-Americans in Louisiana.

dv_dt 8y ago

I don't think you're thinking of the historical details to say that in such a blase manner. The path to integration went through periods much more violent and contentious than anything we see today.

cheeseomlit 8y ago
I'm aware of how immigrants were treated back then and I'm not condoning it. That still doesn't change the fact that they came from cultures that IMO were quite compatible with the USAs considering their common origin and values. I think the current situation in Europe, and other instances of mass migration in history, demonstrate that not all cultures are compatible with each other
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Like Cubans after the revolution, or Iranians after their revolution, or maybe the mass of Vietnamese after the war? What actual cultures are you saying are incompatible? America has worked with them all and despite hand-wringing over "compatibility". There is a much stronger case to be made human beings are humans in the end and that it just takes time.
- chaostheory 8y ago
  That’s not true. When German immigrants were new, no one believed they would integrate since they refused to give up speaking German. Catholics like the Irish were viewed with suspicion because they revered a pope. America’s secret superpower is the ability to assimilate pretty much any people within four generations give or take
- yborg 8y ago
  So, only white people can assimilate then? The now many generations of people of Hispanic origin that are part of the American story would seem to indicate you are wrong. As is the case with the now multiple generations of Koreans and particularly Japanese, who remain part of the US story even after being put into concentration camps because of precisely the same sort of prejudice, that they were somehow inherently un-American due to their "cultural incompatibility", i.e. non-whiteness, unlike the millions of German-Americans in the US at the time. The Muslims will (continue to) integrate as well. It takes a couple of generations.
- adamsea 8y ago
  > I think the current situation in Europe, and other instances of mass migration in history, demonstrate that not all cultures are compatible with each other. Japanese Americans? Chinese Americans? Indian Americans? Plus, the very concept of some sort of empirical “cultural incompatibility” seems highly questionable. I mean, it’s not like cultures change over time or anything like that.
- unepipe 8y ago
  "cultural compatibility"... Sounds like a concept created by someone who hasn't met people from very many cultures.
raverbashing 8y ago
Which historical details? The fact that the US was extremely racist but the immigrants managed to integrate by focusing on work and adapting instead of spiting and complaining about the host country?

Analemma_ 8y ago

That's not what anti-immigration crusaders said at the time. It was a common belief that Italian and Irish immigrants (who were mostly Catholic) could never fit in to Protestant American society. Your statement is pure revisionism.

jaredklewis 8y ago

The Chinese immigrated to the US at a similar time as the Irish and Italians. The more than 3 million Chinese living in the US today seem plenty well integrated and I don’t think China and America are particular close in terms of culture.

cheeseomlit 8y ago
That's a fair point, I guess I'd make a distinction between similarity and compatibility
gowld 8y ago
And the Chinese immigrants were met with the same fierce racism that meets Hispanics and Arabs and Africans today.
- loggedinmyphone 8y ago
  Historically the Hispanic and African populations were in the US a good deal before the Chinese.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  In France the Chinese are the preferred targets of gangs (run by whom?) http://www.france24.com/en/20160908-france-chinese-community-targeted-crime-aubervilliers-protest http://www.france24.com/en/20160908-france-chinese-community...
jandrese 8y ago
And also Irish. Despite being white and christian the Irish faced considerable discrimination around the turn of the century.
- kaitai 8y ago
  As recently as 1998 I had a preacher tell my Irish Catholic friend that she still had a chance to accept Jesus and be saved. There is still a feeling that Catholics are not really Christian in some circles, and that was an important factor in justifying the discrimination you mention!

jpao79 8y ago

This movie, Gangs of New York, by Martin Scorsese about New York City during a period of Irish immigration might suggest otherwise. I recall attempting to watch it when it came out on DVD but it was too violent for a Friday night: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_a...

adamsea 8y ago

Almost every single movie by Martin Scorsese would say otherwise. Seriously, though, Catholics and Protestants? There was a reason it was a big deal that Kennedy was the first Catholic president.

baal232 8y ago

Back then, Americans didn't see it that way. There was a widespread suspicion that Catholicism was incompatible with democracy.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> There was a widespread suspicion that Catholicism was incompatible with democracy. And that was the secularized, polite face of the common religious belief that both the Papacy as an office and the particular occupants of that office were the literal referent of the biblical Antichrist, and that “Papists” were, therefore, followers of the Antichrist.