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Why is it that birth rates have gone down though? Many factors, mostly economic, which should be addressed instead of importing millions of people who will soon

Why is it that birth rates have gone down though? Many factors, mostly economic, which should be addressed instead of importing millions of people who will soon be replaced by automation anyways.

drak0n1c 8y ago
People used to have many more kids regardless of whether they were facing good or bad times. I'd say the change is less economic and more due to culture - both men and women want less kids. There is economics in the cultural change - as people get wealthier and government welfare becomes more reliable the forces behind maintaining and growing the family decreases. Wealthy people in the past still had many more kids than they do now though, so there's probably a bigger explanation.
- magduf 8y ago
  I'd say it's because of two things: 1) the invention of reliable birth control (namely The Pill), and 2) the rise of women to equal citizenship status with men, instead of basically being slaves used for breeding. Women are the ones who have to sacrifice the most for children, so now that they have a choice, they don't do it nearly as much: some have none, others only have 1 or 2 and they've had enough. For replacement rate, every woman needs to have 2.1 kids on average, and not nearly enough women want to have 3+ kids to make up for all the women having fewer (which also includes infertile women don't forget). And also with men and women being much more equal, men are expected to invest much more effort in child-rearing now, instead of just banging their wives and then letting them deal with the consequences while they do other stuff with their time. Well they don't want to deal with 6 kids either, and many don't want to deal with any.
- robotrout 8y ago
  The idea that a population must expand in perpetuity is an idea that is obviously flawed to apply to any finite nation. Given the oncoming tide of automation, it seems doubly flawed. It should be acceptable for any population to ebb and flow, as changes in internal and external forces occur. Deciding to import warm bodies because your economic ponzi appears to require it seems like short term thinking. It would be better if the ponzi itself was addressed and the population allowed to ebb for awhile. People are easy to attract to your country when you really need them ... unless you've managed to make that country undesirable.
- user5994461 8y ago
  You forget the most basic fact. We understand how children are made now, or not made. It may sound stupid but it was not obvious a hundred years ago. The wife is pregnant again, well, must be an act of god.
  - loggedinmyphone 8y ago
    You have a remarkable conception of what life was like a hundred years ago.
    - user5994461 8y ago
      Well, try talking to your grandparents or beyond. It was a different time. Try to imagine. There is no google search to find out how to make children. The closest library is far away and it's not that common to go to school and learn to read. That leaves you with the opinions of the family, the neighbors and the priest, who don't know much either and offer contradictory explanations.
      - krapp 8y ago
        >Try to imagine. There is no google search to find out how to make children. The closest library is far away and it's not that common to go to school and learn to read. That leaves you with the opinions of the family, the neighbors and the priest, who may not know much either and offer different tales. I have to assume you're trolling, but to be charitable, here[0] is the Wikipedia article on the history of birth control. It starts in 1800 BC with ancient Egyptian writings describing the use of acacia and honey as a spermicide. People knew where babies came from way before the internet. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_birth_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_birth_control
        mmt 8y ago
        > People knew where babies came from way before the internet. I think you missed the GP's primary point. Just because someone in the entire world had the requisite knowledge might mean nothing at all to another someone a mere few hours of travel away, let alone on the other side of the world. That's why written language was such a huge invention[1]. Then the printing press. Then the telegraph, radio, and telephone. Finally, the Internet. I'm sure I missed a few, but you get the idea. [1] A moment of silence for the Libary at Alexandria, please
- erik_seaberg 8y ago
  Kids used to be cheap farm labor who eventually became your retirement plan. Now that nobody has land, child labor is forbidden, and "free-range parenting" is all but negligence, parenthood is a nearly unaffordable hobby.
trophycase 8y ago
Depression, obesity, and kids are soooooo uncool. Just get, like, a dog or something. #blessed It's pretty easy to read this thread and see how much dislike there is toward children.
loggedinmyphone 8y ago
Based on the people I know, it's because they have student debt, they can't afford a house, they can't afford for one parent to quit their job and do full-time child care, and the price of day Care is prohibitive. The only people who can afford kids are either extremely rich or extremely poor.

Why is it that birth rates have gone down though? Many factors, mostly economic, which should be addressed instead of importing millions of people who will soon be replaced by automation anyways.

drak0n1c 8y ago

People used to have many more kids regardless of whether they were facing good or bad times. I'd say the change is less economic and more due to culture - both men and women want less kids. There is economics in the cultural change - as people get wealthier and government welfare becomes more reliable the forces behind maintaining and growing the family decreases. Wealthy people in the past still had many more kids than they do now though, so there's probably a bigger explanation.

magduf 8y ago
I'd say it's because of two things: 1) the invention of reliable birth control (namely The Pill), and 2) the rise of women to equal citizenship status with men, instead of basically being slaves used for breeding. Women are the ones who have to sacrifice the most for children, so now that they have a choice, they don't do it nearly as much: some have none, others only have 1 or 2 and they've had enough. For replacement rate, every woman needs to have 2.1 kids on average, and not nearly enough women want to have 3+ kids to make up for all the women having fewer (which also includes infertile women don't forget). And also with men and women being much more equal, men are expected to invest much more effort in child-rearing now, instead of just banging their wives and then letting them deal with the consequences while they do other stuff with their time. Well they don't want to deal with 6 kids either, and many don't want to deal with any.
robotrout 8y ago
The idea that a population must expand in perpetuity is an idea that is obviously flawed to apply to any finite nation. Given the oncoming tide of automation, it seems doubly flawed. It should be acceptable for any population to ebb and flow, as changes in internal and external forces occur. Deciding to import warm bodies because your economic ponzi appears to require it seems like short term thinking. It would be better if the ponzi itself was addressed and the population allowed to ebb for awhile. People are easy to attract to your country when you really need them ... unless you've managed to make that country undesirable.
user5994461 8y ago
You forget the most basic fact. We understand how children are made now, or not made. It may sound stupid but it was not obvious a hundred years ago. The wife is pregnant again, well, must be an act of god.
- loggedinmyphone 8y ago
  You have a remarkable conception of what life was like a hundred years ago.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    Well, try talking to your grandparents or beyond. It was a different time. Try to imagine. There is no google search to find out how to make children. The closest library is far away and it's not that common to go to school and learn to read. That leaves you with the opinions of the family, the neighbors and the priest, who don't know much either and offer contradictory explanations.
    - krapp 8y ago
      >Try to imagine. There is no google search to find out how to make children. The closest library is far away and it's not that common to go to school and learn to read. That leaves you with the opinions of the family, the neighbors and the priest, who may not know much either and offer different tales. I have to assume you're trolling, but to be charitable, here[0] is the Wikipedia article on the history of birth control. It starts in 1800 BC with ancient Egyptian writings describing the use of acacia and honey as a spermicide. People knew where babies came from way before the internet. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_birth_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_birth_control
      - mmt 8y ago
        > People knew where babies came from way before the internet. I think you missed the GP's primary point. Just because someone in the entire world had the requisite knowledge might mean nothing at all to another someone a mere few hours of travel away, let alone on the other side of the world. That's why written language was such a huge invention[1]. Then the printing press. Then the telegraph, radio, and telephone. Finally, the Internet. I'm sure I missed a few, but you get the idea. [1] A moment of silence for the Libary at Alexandria, please
erik_seaberg 8y ago
Kids used to be cheap farm labor who eventually became your retirement plan. Now that nobody has land, child labor is forbidden, and "free-range parenting" is all but negligence, parenthood is a nearly unaffordable hobby.

trophycase 8y ago

Depression, obesity, and kids are soooooo uncool. Just get, like, a dog or something. #blessed It's pretty easy to read this thread and see how much dislike there is toward children.

loggedinmyphone 8y ago

Based on the people I know, it's because they have student debt, they can't afford a house, they can't afford for one parent to quit their job and do full-time child care, and the price of day Care is prohibitive. The only people who can afford kids are either extremely rich or extremely poor.