9 ms·

I would much rather rehabilitate, but since that's not happening and there are high recitivism rates, I do want to know who lives near me or where I might want

I would much rather rehabilitate, but since that's not happening and there are high recitivism rates, I do want to know who lives near me or where I might want to live. In the instances where you damage your community through a crime, it's OK to lose some right to privacy. I could see the case for getting removed if you do successfully rehabilitate though.

striking 8y ago
How could you possibly judge that?
ironjunkie 8y ago
It is a chicken and egg problem. By shaming the person, they will be unable to ever find a job again, date anyone again, live normally again. You push those people to the fringe and the most probable outcome is for those people to fall into criminal activities again. As an anecdote, in my previous job I met a programmer at a Meetup and the guy had exactly the required skills. HR refused to even initiate an interview because he apparently had a "small criminal case" 15 years before that was found with one of those deep background check tools.
- rootw0rm 8y ago
  convicted bank robber here, it is difficult sometimes. California is making good progress though, as long as you don't want a government job or a job that requires a state license.
joyaddition 8y ago
> there are high recitivism rates Only murderers have a lower recidivism rate.
Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
>there are high recitivism rates What are the rates and what makes them high? Do the rates vary by type of crime? Are, say, victimless crimes overrepresented?
- tyingq 8y ago
  High recitivism might be related to the inability to get a real job once convicted. In the old days, only big corps had access to background checks. Now every tiny business has access for less than $20, online, instantly. So you make a mistake, go to prison, then get out. With zero job prospects. Who is surprised that you reoffend? The options are homelessness, leeching off family, or reoffending. Where, not long ago, you could get a decent job at a small or medium company that just didn't do background checks. Speaking from real, if anecdotal, experience, with some family members and friends. One felony (even a non-violent one) is now a lifelong anchor. There are still a few loopholes, like being a hairdresser, since those are typically contract positions where you "rent a booth" and are a small biz owner, but even the loopholes are disappearing. I have several friends and family members, good people, that ruined their life with one stupid weed/meth/whatever possesion charge. If you can't tell this is a passion point for me. We're slowing going dystopian where one mistake kills your lifelong opportunity. Europe seems so far ahead of us in the US on rehabilitation versus punishment. Crazy Puritan bullshit if you ask me. There seems like some opportunity for someone to build a low cost small biz ownership option (window washing, hairdressing, maid service, janitorial services, pool cleaning, pet grooming, etc) option for these types of felons. I wish I had the time and fortitude. Maybe someone else does?
  - ironjunkie 8y ago
    I am also very attached to this, even though I don't have a direct family member or friend being a felon in the US. From an ethical and social perspective, how terrible is society if doing one (sometimes small) mistake which we could realistically all make at some point in our life pushes us to constantly fail everything in life going forward? Think about the stupid shit you did at 19 year old that could follow you your whole life? I understand that some positions require background checks, but it shouldn't be like it is today where no businesses will even take the risk to hire anyone with the slightest dent in their criminal past.
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    I like how you completely ignored my question and instead used it as a prompt to soapbox. Have you considered a career in politics? Public relations?
tyingq 8y ago
Right, but arrests aren't the same thing as convictions. Innocent until proven guilty and all.

striking 8y ago

How could you possibly judge that?

ironjunkie 8y ago

It is a chicken and egg problem. By shaming the person, they will be unable to ever find a job again, date anyone again, live normally again. You push those people to the fringe and the most probable outcome is for those people to fall into criminal activities again. As an anecdote, in my previous job I met a programmer at a Meetup and the guy had exactly the required skills. HR refused to even initiate an interview because he apparently had a "small criminal case" 15 years before that was found with one of those deep background check tools.

rootw0rm 8y ago
convicted bank robber here, it is difficult sometimes. California is making good progress though, as long as you don't want a government job or a job that requires a state license.

joyaddition 8y ago

> there are high recitivism rates Only murderers have a lower recidivism rate.

Andre_Wanglin 8y ago

>there are high recitivism rates What are the rates and what makes them high? Do the rates vary by type of crime? Are, say, victimless crimes overrepresented?

tyingq 8y ago
High recitivism might be related to the inability to get a real job once convicted. In the old days, only big corps had access to background checks. Now every tiny business has access for less than $20, online, instantly. So you make a mistake, go to prison, then get out. With zero job prospects. Who is surprised that you reoffend? The options are homelessness, leeching off family, or reoffending. Where, not long ago, you could get a decent job at a small or medium company that just didn't do background checks. Speaking from real, if anecdotal, experience, with some family members and friends. One felony (even a non-violent one) is now a lifelong anchor. There are still a few loopholes, like being a hairdresser, since those are typically contract positions where you "rent a booth" and are a small biz owner, but even the loopholes are disappearing. I have several friends and family members, good people, that ruined their life with one stupid weed/meth/whatever possesion charge. If you can't tell this is a passion point for me. We're slowing going dystopian where one mistake kills your lifelong opportunity. Europe seems so far ahead of us in the US on rehabilitation versus punishment. Crazy Puritan bullshit if you ask me. There seems like some opportunity for someone to build a low cost small biz ownership option (window washing, hairdressing, maid service, janitorial services, pool cleaning, pet grooming, etc) option for these types of felons. I wish I had the time and fortitude. Maybe someone else does?
- ironjunkie 8y ago
  I am also very attached to this, even though I don't have a direct family member or friend being a felon in the US. From an ethical and social perspective, how terrible is society if doing one (sometimes small) mistake which we could realistically all make at some point in our life pushes us to constantly fail everything in life going forward? Think about the stupid shit you did at 19 year old that could follow you your whole life? I understand that some positions require background checks, but it shouldn't be like it is today where no businesses will even take the risk to hire anyone with the slightest dent in their criminal past.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  I like how you completely ignored my question and instead used it as a prompt to soapbox. Have you considered a career in politics? Public relations?

tyingq 8y ago

Right, but arrests aren't the same thing as convictions. Innocent until proven guilty and all.