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How do you compare Elon Musk to Steve Jobs? I’m genuinely interested. In my mind, the first has built the biggest profit machine the world has ever seen. The la

by baxtr 9y ago

How do you compare Elon Musk to Steve Jobs? I’m genuinely interested. In my mind, the first has built the biggest profit machine the world has ever seen. The latter is still experimenting and burning a lot of cash. Sure, both are quite charismatic. (I’m not trying to be judgmental here, just trying to find a common measure)

GuiA 9y ago
Elon Musk promises he'll deliver self driving electric cars and reusable spacecraft. It's hard to find things that would get tech enthusiasts more excited. If he were reinventing the shipping or fertilizer industry while burning as much cash and treating his employees as poorly, no one would idolize him the way he is idolized now.
- xkjkls 9y ago
  Treating your employees pretty terribly unfortunately often comes with the package for alot of "visionary leaders". If you have a single minded focus toward one specific goal, you forget alot of basic decency. Steve Jobs was also famous for being a shitty boss.
victor106 9y ago
I used to be a huge fan of Musk. I still am in some ways. But his recent behaviour is not worthy of his stature. I am specifically referring to: 1. Repeatedly failing to keep promises and coming up with excuses, very unlike Jobs who would not let even his VP's miss a deadline. 2. His rant on the earnings call with a few analysts who were asking genuine questions seemed so immature. You could never imagine Jobs would do such a thing. 3. His challenge with Buffett about moats and starting a candy company. This seemed so utterly silly and childish although you could argue he was joking. But again, I just cannot imagine Jobs talking like a loose character in public. FYI:- I am long Tesla stock and think it could still be a great company although my confidence in that is a bit down at the moment.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  1) Jobs wasn't wildly off on every technology deadline NeXT ever set itself? Really? 2) Same "question" - which was actually just an analyst gainsaying the firm's estimate, not a question at all - three times in a row as if it hadn't been answered the first time. It's not childish to refuse incivility. It's childish to pretend incivility is civility. 3) "Moats" - actually Network Effects that are typically leveraged as illegal extensions of market power. (As was the case in question: with Musk refusing to illegally block the interoperability of Tesla's charging stations.) Musk felt maybe staying on the right side of the law (enforced or not) might be cool. You don't. That's nice. This realm of law hasn't been enforced much since the end of the seventies, but it's still there. The fact that it's usually grownups who go to jail, doesn't mean it's childish to obey the law. Why shouldn't Musk start a candy company as his responce to Buffet's chortled taunt if he cares to? Gotta be more fun than production hell. Or even start a tunnel company. (He said he was serious re candy. Maybe he likes candy.)
Nomentatus 9y ago
SpaceX is starting a period when it will be gathering immense profits, since as the low-price leader it won't need to pass on the savings from booster reuse to its customers, and doesn't plan to. Granted, Jobs profits came from a closed system and illegal moats vs interoperability (not that those laws, or many others, are enforced vs corporations very often.) Whereas Musk doesn't admire those who leverage mere Network Efforts.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  This is not really correct; SpaceX has lowered their base price from $62mm to $50mm in the past year or so.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    True but not relevant to reuse savings, since reuse without expensive refurbishing hasn't happened yet, and reuse at all rather rarely; it will be common with the Block 5 Falcons just coming into use now. There's no planned drop in price to reflect that reuse.
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      Er, you have no idea if what you just said is true, the only fact is the price drop.
      - Nomentatus 8y ago
        Just google the news, you'll find the description of Block 5 and what it means there; and previous articles will tell you how many refurbishments have been made and what relaunches have been performed, and whether there are or aren't SpaceX announcements of price drops. FWIW, the first stage (which is the only reusable stage now) “represents close to 60% of the cost" of a launch. If you want more detail, you'll want to find a transcript of Musk's teleconference with reporters on May 10 2018. Now what are your sources, sir, that justify your scorn, certainty and incivility?

by baxtr 9y ago

GuiA 9y ago

Elon Musk promises he'll deliver self driving electric cars and reusable spacecraft. It's hard to find things that would get tech enthusiasts more excited. If he were reinventing the shipping or fertilizer industry while burning as much cash and treating his employees as poorly, no one would idolize him the way he is idolized now.

xkjkls 9y ago
Treating your employees pretty terribly unfortunately often comes with the package for alot of "visionary leaders". If you have a single minded focus toward one specific goal, you forget alot of basic decency. Steve Jobs was also famous for being a shitty boss.

victor106 9y ago

I used to be a huge fan of Musk. I still am in some ways. But his recent behaviour is not worthy of his stature. I am specifically referring to: 1. Repeatedly failing to keep promises and coming up with excuses, very unlike Jobs who would not let even his VP's miss a deadline. 2. His rant on the earnings call with a few analysts who were asking genuine questions seemed so immature. You could never imagine Jobs would do such a thing. 3. His challenge with Buffett about moats and starting a candy company. This seemed so utterly silly and childish although you could argue he was joking. But again, I just cannot imagine Jobs talking like a loose character in public. FYI:- I am long Tesla stock and think it could still be a great company although my confidence in that is a bit down at the moment.

Nomentatus 9y ago
1) Jobs wasn't wildly off on every technology deadline NeXT ever set itself? Really? 2) Same "question" - which was actually just an analyst gainsaying the firm's estimate, not a question at all - three times in a row as if it hadn't been answered the first time. It's not childish to refuse incivility. It's childish to pretend incivility is civility. 3) "Moats" - actually Network Effects that are typically leveraged as illegal extensions of market power. (As was the case in question: with Musk refusing to illegally block the interoperability of Tesla's charging stations.) Musk felt maybe staying on the right side of the law (enforced or not) might be cool. You don't. That's nice. This realm of law hasn't been enforced much since the end of the seventies, but it's still there. The fact that it's usually grownups who go to jail, doesn't mean it's childish to obey the law. Why shouldn't Musk start a candy company as his responce to Buffet's chortled taunt if he cares to? Gotta be more fun than production hell. Or even start a tunnel company. (He said he was serious re candy. Maybe he likes candy.)

Nomentatus 9y ago

SpaceX is starting a period when it will be gathering immense profits, since as the low-price leader it won't need to pass on the savings from booster reuse to its customers, and doesn't plan to. Granted, Jobs profits came from a closed system and illegal moats vs interoperability (not that those laws, or many others, are enforced vs corporations very often.) Whereas Musk doesn't admire those who leverage mere Network Efforts.

greglindahl 8y ago
This is not really correct; SpaceX has lowered their base price from $62mm to $50mm in the past year or so.
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  True but not relevant to reuse savings, since reuse without expensive refurbishing hasn't happened yet, and reuse at all rather rarely; it will be common with the Block 5 Falcons just coming into use now. There's no planned drop in price to reflect that reuse.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    Er, you have no idea if what you just said is true, the only fact is the price drop.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      Just google the news, you'll find the description of Block 5 and what it means there; and previous articles will tell you how many refurbishments have been made and what relaunches have been performed, and whether there are or aren't SpaceX announcements of price drops. FWIW, the first stage (which is the only reusable stage now) “represents close to 60% of the cost" of a launch. If you want more detail, you'll want to find a transcript of Musk's teleconference with reporters on May 10 2018. Now what are your sources, sir, that justify your scorn, certainty and incivility?