4 ms·

Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have.

by dilap 8y ago

Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.

TallGuyShort 8y ago
On the other hand, the 4 years I spent working full-time were hands-down the best education I got and directly led to my best job prospects upon graduation, whereas I had peers who finished a 4 year degree and then realized they had no desire to work in their field. Eliminating any cost of college also eliminates any need to ask if what you're studying is actually worthwhile.
- dilap 8y ago
  I think getting work experience is great, but ideally it'd be in the form of part time work or (even better) summer internships.
GiorgioG 8y ago
> You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Most of the kids going to college are not mature enough to do any of the above (come on, these are 17 year olds going 30k into debt for their first year alone.) The 'college experience' today is partying / drinking yourself into a stupor and amassing a ton of debt. No, not everyone, but for most that's reality.
- blueseaadmin 8y ago
  I agree. My own daughter will be going into the Air Force in a couple of years. She's not one that would do well in the college environment. She fits in best where she is a part of something bigger than herself where there is guidance and discipline (like most kids). If she goes in at 18 after high school, she can earn a degree in 2.5 years at night in the Air Force. After her first 4 years she can choose to get out, with a degree, zero debt, life and work experience. If she so chooses, she can opt to go to Officer Candidate School (13 weeks in Alabama) and emerge 3 months later effectively doubling her income, all the while not paying for medical, dental, housing. If she marries another officer and they do 20 years to retirement, she will be 39, young enough to start a second career and enjoy her AF retirement, second career retirement, and maybe, if she's blessed, SS. More kids should go military. I did, and I had my college paid for and I pay nothing down for houses, get my closing costs paid, no PMI, get treated a little better because of my veteran status. It's a great gig for kids.
  - learc83 8y ago
    The military could be a good choice for some people, but I don't know if I'd call it a great gig. Out of all the 10 or so people I know fairly well who are active duty or former military (Marines, Air Force, and Navy, I don't think I know any Army people unless you count National Guard). 2 have serious PTSD. 1 of those, my neighbor, was just arrested for forging pain med prescriptions--he got hooked after he was seriously wounded in combat. 4 received medical discharges from health issues directly caused by their military service (out of combat). Sure they get monthly payments, but they'd all rather not have the injuries. All of them have spent considerable time deployed, and most of them have had serious family issues because they were away for so long. All of their deployments were dangerous. One of my Air Force friends is a jet engine mechanic, but told me that they pulled the Marine guards out of where he was stationed, so they gave him an M16 (or maybe it was an M4, not sure what they were using at the time) and made him do guard duty.
    - blueseaadmin 8y ago
      A young women going into the Air Force in a support role is highly unlikely to ever be near the front lines; that is the bailiwick of the Army and Marines. She wants to go into a PR role, so the chances of this are slim. I grew up a military brat, did almost 10 years myself in the Corps. I was in during DS1 and almost no one I know from that "war" has PTSD. I personally know several Marines who sent dozens of people to their graves and they are are normal as anyone else. PTSD depends on the mental strength of the individual. My own grandfather (WWII in Asia) did a 20+ year career, and my dad (grunt in Vietnam) who also did a 20+ year career didn't suffer from PTSD. My dad was a machine gunner in Vietnam. He was involved in horrible circumstances. His unit was once embattled around a US airfield in a protection role against sappers, and every man on patrol was wounded as well as covered in leeches from fighting in the nasty water. He went on dozens of missions and did and saw all manner of stuff. My dad was well adjusted, went on to earn a master's degree in engineering, and was an all around swell guy.
      - learc83 8y ago
        >PTSD depends on the mental strength of the individual. People with PTSD don't have some kind of mental weakness. There's even evidence that many cases of PTSD are the results of undiagnosed brain trauma from IED detonations. >A young women going into the Air Force Yeah, for some people it's a good option. It's not a "great gig for kids" though in general--for the hundreds of thousands of people with PTSD and other job related injuries, it wasn't a great gig. Something can't really simultaneously be described as both requiring tremendous personal sacrifice, and a great gig.
- bjourne 8y ago
  > No, not everyone, but for most that's reality. You've been watching to many American Pie movies. College students are insanely focused because they know how tough the competition is. No one has time to party.
  - replicatorblog 8y ago
    At Ivies and other top 20 schools, I'd agree. Maybe even the top 50. Beyond that, I think the American Pie stereotypes are closer to the norm than you might think.
    - chillwaves 8y ago
      This was my experience and yes I went to a crappy school.
    - bjourne 8y ago
      Can you give me an example of an American Pie university? Because I don't believe you.
- dilap 8y ago
  Real cultural problem/phenonenom there, but not a reason to write off college entirely. 17 year olds are absolutely old and mature enough to do all kinds of valuable learning & thinking, if in the right culture. (So are 13 year olds!)
Eire_Banshee 8y ago
Most people are at college to get a job with a good paycheck after, not to learn.
freeopinion 8y ago
I found that my full-time job as a student allowed me to test lessons I learned in the classroom, or to at least see their application in real settings. I never met anyone in college who used their free time to ponder. People fill up their free time, one way or the other. Then they ponder during their busy time. Having to grind to get in the game sounds like real life. An education that does not prepare you for real life is of questionable value.
refurb 8y ago
You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Ok, but you should do that on your own dime, not someone else's. And when you end up with student debt, you shouldn't complain because you go to "ponder, explore and be curious".

by dilap 8y ago

TallGuyShort 8y ago

On the other hand, the 4 years I spent working full-time were hands-down the best education I got and directly led to my best job prospects upon graduation, whereas I had peers who finished a 4 year degree and then realized they had no desire to work in their field. Eliminating any cost of college also eliminates any need to ask if what you're studying is actually worthwhile.

dilap 8y ago
I think getting work experience is great, but ideally it'd be in the form of part time work or (even better) summer internships.

GiorgioG 8y ago

> You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Most of the kids going to college are not mature enough to do any of the above (come on, these are 17 year olds going 30k into debt for their first year alone.) The 'college experience' today is partying / drinking yourself into a stupor and amassing a ton of debt. No, not everyone, but for most that's reality.

blueseaadmin 8y ago
I agree. My own daughter will be going into the Air Force in a couple of years. She's not one that would do well in the college environment. She fits in best where she is a part of something bigger than herself where there is guidance and discipline (like most kids). If she goes in at 18 after high school, she can earn a degree in 2.5 years at night in the Air Force. After her first 4 years she can choose to get out, with a degree, zero debt, life and work experience. If she so chooses, she can opt to go to Officer Candidate School (13 weeks in Alabama) and emerge 3 months later effectively doubling her income, all the while not paying for medical, dental, housing. If she marries another officer and they do 20 years to retirement, she will be 39, young enough to start a second career and enjoy her AF retirement, second career retirement, and maybe, if she's blessed, SS. More kids should go military. I did, and I had my college paid for and I pay nothing down for houses, get my closing costs paid, no PMI, get treated a little better because of my veteran status. It's a great gig for kids.
- learc83 8y ago
  The military could be a good choice for some people, but I don't know if I'd call it a great gig. Out of all the 10 or so people I know fairly well who are active duty or former military (Marines, Air Force, and Navy, I don't think I know any Army people unless you count National Guard). 2 have serious PTSD. 1 of those, my neighbor, was just arrested for forging pain med prescriptions--he got hooked after he was seriously wounded in combat. 4 received medical discharges from health issues directly caused by their military service (out of combat). Sure they get monthly payments, but they'd all rather not have the injuries. All of them have spent considerable time deployed, and most of them have had serious family issues because they were away for so long. All of their deployments were dangerous. One of my Air Force friends is a jet engine mechanic, but told me that they pulled the Marine guards out of where he was stationed, so they gave him an M16 (or maybe it was an M4, not sure what they were using at the time) and made him do guard duty.
  - blueseaadmin 8y ago
    A young women going into the Air Force in a support role is highly unlikely to ever be near the front lines; that is the bailiwick of the Army and Marines. She wants to go into a PR role, so the chances of this are slim. I grew up a military brat, did almost 10 years myself in the Corps. I was in during DS1 and almost no one I know from that "war" has PTSD. I personally know several Marines who sent dozens of people to their graves and they are are normal as anyone else. PTSD depends on the mental strength of the individual. My own grandfather (WWII in Asia) did a 20+ year career, and my dad (grunt in Vietnam) who also did a 20+ year career didn't suffer from PTSD. My dad was a machine gunner in Vietnam. He was involved in horrible circumstances. His unit was once embattled around a US airfield in a protection role against sappers, and every man on patrol was wounded as well as covered in leeches from fighting in the nasty water. He went on dozens of missions and did and saw all manner of stuff. My dad was well adjusted, went on to earn a master's degree in engineering, and was an all around swell guy.
    - learc83 8y ago
      >PTSD depends on the mental strength of the individual. People with PTSD don't have some kind of mental weakness. There's even evidence that many cases of PTSD are the results of undiagnosed brain trauma from IED detonations. >A young women going into the Air Force Yeah, for some people it's a good option. It's not a "great gig for kids" though in general--for the hundreds of thousands of people with PTSD and other job related injuries, it wasn't a great gig. Something can't really simultaneously be described as both requiring tremendous personal sacrifice, and a great gig.
bjourne 8y ago
> No, not everyone, but for most that's reality. You've been watching to many American Pie movies. College students are insanely focused because they know how tough the competition is. No one has time to party.
- replicatorblog 8y ago
  At Ivies and other top 20 schools, I'd agree. Maybe even the top 50. Beyond that, I think the American Pie stereotypes are closer to the norm than you might think.
  - chillwaves 8y ago
    This was my experience and yes I went to a crappy school.
  - bjourne 8y ago
    Can you give me an example of an American Pie university? Because I don't believe you.
dilap 8y ago
Real cultural problem/phenonenom there, but not a reason to write off college entirely. 17 year olds are absolutely old and mature enough to do all kinds of valuable learning & thinking, if in the right culture. (So are 13 year olds!)

Eire_Banshee 8y ago

Most people are at college to get a job with a good paycheck after, not to learn.

freeopinion 8y ago

I found that my full-time job as a student allowed me to test lessons I learned in the classroom, or to at least see their application in real settings. I never met anyone in college who used their free time to ponder. People fill up their free time, one way or the other. Then they ponder during their busy time. Having to grind to get in the game sounds like real life. An education that does not prepare you for real life is of questionable value.

refurb 8y ago

You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Ok, but you should do that on your own dime, not someone else's. And when you end up with student debt, you shouldn't complain because you go to "ponder, explore and be curious".