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It's a building block for a command-side society. Just take a look at another article on the HN home page: https://apnews.com/6e151296fb194f85ba69a8babd972e4b

It's a building block for a command-side society. Just take a look at another article on the HN home page: https://apnews.com/6e151296fb194f85ba69a8babd972e4b https://apnews.com/6e151296fb194f85ba69a8babd972e4b The Chinese are rounding up Muslims by the thousand and re-training them out of their culture. Do you want people behind desks thousands of miles away from you manipulating your culture with computer aids? My data is mine, not the fodder for a corporation. The U.S. is about freedom. Want to create your own cult? Sure, find some land and do it. But I don't want to be involved in efforts to command-side my life. I don't trust google's corporate values for driving my life. I don't trust advertisers and election-riggers using psychological monitoring to influence consumption and voting choices. They haven't demonstrated they have our best interests in mind - or that they can be disentangled from evil foreign powers. This video talks about synthesizing objects of desire based on intimate details of peoples' lives, throughout their lives. Then anticipating the decisions they make throughout their life. I don't want a server room full of computers figuring out how to make me comply with google's corporate values. This video even admits explicitly that "the notion of a global good is is problematic," so it weasels to creating optimal health. In fact, the keys to optimal health are already widely-known: eating well and getting exercise. Society's problem is that we have overwhelming advertising influences using scientific techniques to push us away from what we already know. We need distance from this asymmetric power relationship, not deep learning to enhance it.

AndrewKemendo 8y ago
Seems like a false distinction in that Google doesn't have coercive power the same way the Chinese state does. Rather, the video is showing what is clearly an opt-in system to use data to guide a user toward some goal of theirs - in the example's case of "health." Which in theory would then expand into all areas of life so that someone could optimize their decisions with data. Do you make the claim that it is impossible to align a user's goals with a company's goals?
- chillingeffect 8y ago
  At one company I've worked with, health care costs an extra $50/month unless one complies with their health-tracking system's goals. I recently read of an ADD sufferer who was unable to obtain enough medicine to last a full week due to a DUI infraction decades ago. Massive government control over our health and permanent records are extent and nascent. Company's goals are absolutely at odds with individual goals in many, many cases. That's why Consumer Confidence is tracked by the government. That's why manipulative advertising is ubiquitous. I'm not saying it's possible, but why would we trust an advertising company with our health, especially one with a lengthy list of privacy violations? At the very least, health programs should originate from trusted health-related organizations.
fixermark 8y ago
> Do you want people behind desks thousands of miles away from you manipulating your culture with computer aids? Did you mean to describe Hollywood or did you just accidentally describe Hollywood?
njarboe 8y ago
It doesn't just talk about synthesizing objects of desire based on intimate details of peoples' lives, but that the reason for creating those desirable objects and having the user acquire them is not for making money on the sale, but is in order for the ledger to gain access to that object's observation of user for better understanding of the user. "The ledger is missing a key data source which it requires in order to better understand this user." (4:22) It determines if the user is likely to interact with an object that will produce the data and if not then, "In situations where no suitable product is found, the ledger may investigate a bespoked solution." The video[1] says it much better that I can. It has amazingly high production values and writhing for an internal company video. Although Google has been higher tens of thousands of the best young people for awhile now, so I should not be too surprised. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUCX5rPQug&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUCX5rPQug&feature=youtu.be

AndrewKemendo 8y ago

Seems like a false distinction in that Google doesn't have coercive power the same way the Chinese state does. Rather, the video is showing what is clearly an opt-in system to use data to guide a user toward some goal of theirs - in the example's case of "health." Which in theory would then expand into all areas of life so that someone could optimize their decisions with data. Do you make the claim that it is impossible to align a user's goals with a company's goals?

chillingeffect 8y ago
At one company I've worked with, health care costs an extra $50/month unless one complies with their health-tracking system's goals. I recently read of an ADD sufferer who was unable to obtain enough medicine to last a full week due to a DUI infraction decades ago. Massive government control over our health and permanent records are extent and nascent. Company's goals are absolutely at odds with individual goals in many, many cases. That's why Consumer Confidence is tracked by the government. That's why manipulative advertising is ubiquitous. I'm not saying it's possible, but why would we trust an advertising company with our health, especially one with a lengthy list of privacy violations? At the very least, health programs should originate from trusted health-related organizations.

fixermark 8y ago

> Do you want people behind desks thousands of miles away from you manipulating your culture with computer aids? Did you mean to describe Hollywood or did you just accidentally describe Hollywood?

njarboe 8y ago

It doesn't just talk about synthesizing objects of desire based on intimate details of peoples' lives, but that the reason for creating those desirable objects and having the user acquire them is not for making money on the sale, but is in order for the ledger to gain access to that object's observation of user for better understanding of the user. "The ledger is missing a key data source which it requires in order to better understand this user." (4:22) It determines if the user is likely to interact with an object that will produce the data and if not then, "In situations where no suitable product is found, the ledger may investigate a bespoked solution." The video[1] says it much better that I can. It has amazingly high production values and writhing for an internal company video. Although Google has been higher tens of thousands of the best young people for awhile now, so I should not be too surprised. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUCX5rPQug&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqUCX5rPQug&feature=youtu.be