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It's not just kids, is it? This is pretty much the canonical and most self-preserving way of interacting with anyone who has power over you and is in a clear an

It's not just kids, is it? This is pretty much the canonical and most self-preserving way of interacting with anyone who has power over you and is in a clear and present situation to apply it: school officials, police officers, appeal adjudicators at companies who you try to turn to if you think there's been some bureaucratic mistake, military personnel of a foreign power in your country for reasons beyond your control, and even an abusive spouse -- much to the dismay of advocates everywhere.

exelius 8y ago
I feel a lot of white males don’t understand this. Not out of malice, but simply because the circumstances of their lives don’t put them in these situations as often as say, a black woman. It really affects the way you interact with the world and vice versa. In general, white men still make the rules, so if you’re different than that in any way, you have to adapt to the rule makers.
- tristor 8y ago
  What does race have to do with this? Your average white male in the US is not a rule maker and suffers under the same arbitrary and often downright unfair consequences as anyone else. I just watched a white male friend get punished for academic dishonesty because another student cheated off him, despite being able to prove conclusively with logs and other evidence that he had no part in it. I also just watched another white male friend be discriminated against because of his race in receiving mental healthcare services. This made it necessary for him to change employers and move to another city so he’d have access to the mental healthcare services that up to this point had helped prevent his suicide. Both decisions were unfair, unkind, and unnecessary, but were arbitrarily decided by a rules maker who had no oversight (a professor and a bureaucrat). In neither case did being white or male help my friends, and in the latter case he was denied limited services specifically because the bureaucracy prioritizes those services for racial minorities. Seriously stop turning every damn thing into a racial issue with your empirically bullshit identity politics.
  - GavinMcG 8y ago
    The person you're replying to didn't claim that only non-whites or non-males experienced these things. They claimed that white males experience them less frequently. Your anecdotes are not substantial data, and the data do (empirically!) bear out the claim they were making, at least in many areas. You're also right, of course, that this has to do with the power structures in place rather than being purely about race or sex. And in that respect, both you and the person you responded to are probably on the same team: you both think the power structures are unfair and ought to be challenged. Maybe focus on that possibility instead of reacting so critically? In other words, if you're tired of "bullshit identity politics" focus on constructively guiding the conversation towards problematic power dynamics, rather than stomping off just because someone points out that those power dynamics are applied in a way that's disproportionate.
    - exelius 8y ago
      Correct, I was only stating that this same meta-game exists. It’s not about identity politics, it’s that white men have made the rules for a very long time. So from the perspective of a white man, it’s an attack on traditional values. From the perspective of a black woman, it’s trying to claw out the same degree of freedom that the rule makers have while not pissing them off enough to get rebuked (or arrested, or whatever). I feel the world would generally be a better place if we all understood each other’s point of view better. Sadly, most rulemakers have no interest in this.
  - exelius 8y ago
    Thank you for proving my point.
cema 8y ago
Yes, I think you are right. In this sense, high school prepares children/teens for the real life really well. :-(

exelius 8y ago

I feel a lot of white males don’t understand this. Not out of malice, but simply because the circumstances of their lives don’t put them in these situations as often as say, a black woman. It really affects the way you interact with the world and vice versa. In general, white men still make the rules, so if you’re different than that in any way, you have to adapt to the rule makers.

tristor 8y ago
What does race have to do with this? Your average white male in the US is not a rule maker and suffers under the same arbitrary and often downright unfair consequences as anyone else. I just watched a white male friend get punished for academic dishonesty because another student cheated off him, despite being able to prove conclusively with logs and other evidence that he had no part in it. I also just watched another white male friend be discriminated against because of his race in receiving mental healthcare services. This made it necessary for him to change employers and move to another city so he’d have access to the mental healthcare services that up to this point had helped prevent his suicide. Both decisions were unfair, unkind, and unnecessary, but were arbitrarily decided by a rules maker who had no oversight (a professor and a bureaucrat). In neither case did being white or male help my friends, and in the latter case he was denied limited services specifically because the bureaucracy prioritizes those services for racial minorities. Seriously stop turning every damn thing into a racial issue with your empirically bullshit identity politics.
- GavinMcG 8y ago
  The person you're replying to didn't claim that only non-whites or non-males experienced these things. They claimed that white males experience them less frequently. Your anecdotes are not substantial data, and the data do (empirically!) bear out the claim they were making, at least in many areas. You're also right, of course, that this has to do with the power structures in place rather than being purely about race or sex. And in that respect, both you and the person you responded to are probably on the same team: you both think the power structures are unfair and ought to be challenged. Maybe focus on that possibility instead of reacting so critically? In other words, if you're tired of "bullshit identity politics" focus on constructively guiding the conversation towards problematic power dynamics, rather than stomping off just because someone points out that those power dynamics are applied in a way that's disproportionate.
  - exelius 8y ago
    Correct, I was only stating that this same meta-game exists. It’s not about identity politics, it’s that white men have made the rules for a very long time. So from the perspective of a white man, it’s an attack on traditional values. From the perspective of a black woman, it’s trying to claw out the same degree of freedom that the rule makers have while not pissing them off enough to get rebuked (or arrested, or whatever). I feel the world would generally be a better place if we all understood each other’s point of view better. Sadly, most rulemakers have no interest in this.
- exelius 8y ago
  Thank you for proving my point.

cema 8y ago

Yes, I think you are right. In this sense, high school prepares children/teens for the real life really well. :-(