4 ms·

Some readers unfamiliar with the matter might conclude based on your post that Khrushchev somehow managed to solve the problem. No. In most places, you had to w

Some readers unfamiliar with the matter might conclude based on your post that Khrushchev somehow managed to solve the problem. No. In most places, you had to wait a couple of decades (or longer). I left USSR at the age of 36; we , the family of 4, occupied a 160 sq ft apartment (with "partial conveniences" - you probably know what that means), which we inherited from my grandmother, with no chance of getting anything else in a lifetime. We couldn't buy an apartment either, even if we had money (we didn't) - "cooperative" housing was not available. BTW, I worked as a project lead in a military research center back then, so the situation was not due to low status or something. Here's an article that provides some details (in Russian, sorry): https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html EDIT: BTW, would it be a good idea to organize AMA thread for those who'd like to get some first-hand account of what the life in USSR looked like in the 60s,70s,80s (all aspects, including technology)?

patrickg_zill 8y ago
Thanks for your addition to my post. Khrushchev built a lot but it was not a fully solved problem, based on your post. I am not Russian, have been to Russia, speak only a little bit of Russian. I think an AMA thread would be a very good idea! I would be interested to hear more about DRAKON and any LISP and AI work that was done during those periods.
fivre 8y ago
Perhaps not, but my experience visiting Moscow recently suggests that they're in perhaps a slightly better place? There are dense residential areas in various parts of the city, even if the housing stock is older and less than stellar. Those areas are well-served by transit, which is expanding, improving, and generally seems to function better than most of what's in the Bay Area. It's by no means perfect (protests against renovation/relocation programs and the current waste management snafu clearly demonstrate otherwise), but at least they're doing something, as opposed to what appears to be a partial "ignore the problem and we can keep single-family homes throughout all of the SF Bay Area forever" mentality here.
- resource0x 8y ago
  If you visited it recently: please keep in mind that modern-day Russia is not USSR. It's completely different country - at least in terms of economy. In USSR, money meant NOTHING. In today's Russia, it means EVERYTHING. That's the difference. EDIT: forgot to mention that Moscow is not a typical Russian city. You won't make a big mistake if you consider it a separate country. Whatever you observe in Moscow is specific to Moscow only. The state of the roads/public transportation across the country at large is (reportedly) not much better than it used to be in USSR (on average).
foobarian 8y ago
I love learning about accounts like this because some of it is so alien to the way things work in the Western capitalist system. I grew up later but still saw some tail end of communism and some things like * You were told which job you would get * You would be assigned an apartment to live in. Imagine going to the DMV but instead it's a housing office where you'd get a place * You could opt out of paying for a TV subscription but then a government agent would come to put a seal on the TV. They put a couple of pieces of lead around the electric plug, and crimp them on with a special tool that stamped a tamper-evident pattern. Just wild! * In the early days I am told there would be frequent "work actions" where workers at random companies would be asked to go outside and do manual labor where needed e.g. when clearing right of way for a railroad, laying ties, etc.
- resource0x 8y ago
  There's not really enough space here to elaborate, so very briefly: 1) basically yes, but ... (the story is really too long) 2) hell no! What do you mean by "assigned"? If after University you got the job in a different city (not very common arrangement, and normally this different city would be some place you would never consider as a first choice for living), you could get a room in a shared apartment, in which you would get stuck forever, even after you got married. But still, there was a chance to get a separate apartment eventually (with family and kids, certainly). But if you stayed in your native city - (90% of cases) situation was really dire... long story. (BTW, you couldn't move to another city afterwards either, except by way of marriage. There were some loopholes for workers though. Again, I'd need a "switch" statement with some "cases" to elaborate. 3) Never heard of such things. Don't remember paying for TV at all, and under no circumstances they would cut it off: TV was the main instrument of propaganda). 4) Work actions, as you call them, were normal occurrence, and some types of these actions were a lot of fun. Though gathering potatoes under the rain was not very enjoyable by itself, we were always provided with the supply of technical spirits (diluted to 40%) to keep our morale high :) EDIT: I used the term "technical spirits", b/c that's how the stuff was called in Russia - it's the supply of low-quality (rather stinky) spirits allotted to computer center allegedly for cleaning electrical contacts, but was never used for that purpose b/c it had much more important applications, including (but not limited to) as alcoholic drink and a medium of exchange

patrickg_zill 8y ago

Thanks for your addition to my post. Khrushchev built a lot but it was not a fully solved problem, based on your post. I am not Russian, have been to Russia, speak only a little bit of Russian. I think an AMA thread would be a very good idea! I would be interested to hear more about DRAKON and any LISP and AI work that was done during those periods.

fivre 8y ago

Perhaps not, but my experience visiting Moscow recently suggests that they're in perhaps a slightly better place? There are dense residential areas in various parts of the city, even if the housing stock is older and less than stellar. Those areas are well-served by transit, which is expanding, improving, and generally seems to function better than most of what's in the Bay Area. It's by no means perfect (protests against renovation/relocation programs and the current waste management snafu clearly demonstrate otherwise), but at least they're doing something, as opposed to what appears to be a partial "ignore the problem and we can keep single-family homes throughout all of the SF Bay Area forever" mentality here.

resource0x 8y ago
If you visited it recently: please keep in mind that modern-day Russia is not USSR. It's completely different country - at least in terms of economy. In USSR, money meant NOTHING. In today's Russia, it means EVERYTHING. That's the difference. EDIT: forgot to mention that Moscow is not a typical Russian city. You won't make a big mistake if you consider it a separate country. Whatever you observe in Moscow is specific to Moscow only. The state of the roads/public transportation across the country at large is (reportedly) not much better than it used to be in USSR (on average).

foobarian 8y ago

I love learning about accounts like this because some of it is so alien to the way things work in the Western capitalist system. I grew up later but still saw some tail end of communism and some things like * You were told which job you would get * You would be assigned an apartment to live in. Imagine going to the DMV but instead it's a housing office where you'd get a place * You could opt out of paying for a TV subscription but then a government agent would come to put a seal on the TV. They put a couple of pieces of lead around the electric plug, and crimp them on with a special tool that stamped a tamper-evident pattern. Just wild! * In the early days I am told there would be frequent "work actions" where workers at random companies would be asked to go outside and do manual labor where needed e.g. when clearing right of way for a railroad, laying ties, etc.

resource0x 8y ago
There's not really enough space here to elaborate, so very briefly: 1) basically yes, but ... (the story is really too long) 2) hell no! What do you mean by "assigned"? If after University you got the job in a different city (not very common arrangement, and normally this different city would be some place you would never consider as a first choice for living), you could get a room in a shared apartment, in which you would get stuck forever, even after you got married. But still, there was a chance to get a separate apartment eventually (with family and kids, certainly). But if you stayed in your native city - (90% of cases) situation was really dire... long story. (BTW, you couldn't move to another city afterwards either, except by way of marriage. There were some loopholes for workers though. Again, I'd need a "switch" statement with some "cases" to elaborate. 3) Never heard of such things. Don't remember paying for TV at all, and under no circumstances they would cut it off: TV was the main instrument of propaganda). 4) Work actions, as you call them, were normal occurrence, and some types of these actions were a lot of fun. Though gathering potatoes under the rain was not very enjoyable by itself, we were always provided with the supply of technical spirits (diluted to 40%) to keep our morale high :) EDIT: I used the term "technical spirits", b/c that's how the stuff was called in Russia - it's the supply of low-quality (rather stinky) spirits allotted to computer center allegedly for cleaning electrical contacts, but was never used for that purpose b/c it had much more important applications, including (but not limited to) as alcoholic drink and a medium of exchange