4 ms·

I keep seeing parallels to the situation in USSR after WWII - there was a chronic lack of housing: some of the housing stock had been destroyed in WWII, there w

I keep seeing parallels to the situation in USSR after WWII - there was a chronic lack of housing: some of the housing stock had been destroyed in WWII, there were new couples that were owed (by the state) housing, and of course the existing housing stock had further deteriorated (it was that many years older than before the war). Khrushchev championed the construction of pre-fabricated concrete "plank" 5 story buildings - they built 2 factories in different parts of USSR and cranked them out, delivering them mostly by train to all corners of the country. The designs were pretty much the same, down the interior furnishings and apartment layouts (a plot point of the perennial New Year's Eve favorite movie, "Irony of Fate"), and fit and finish were sub-standard. BUT, people did get their housing, had kids, went on with their lives. With all the post-USSR criticism of Soviet leaders, you realize that Khrushchev had very few bad things said about him... I think the person, or organization, that is seen to (somehow, however they do it) solve the housing problems we have, will have a great deal of political goodwill and possibly political power. EDIT: some "Khrushchevka Housing" info https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/03/the-disappearing-mass-housing-of-the-soviet-union/518868/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/03/the-disappearing-mass... https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/moscows-new-housing-megaproject-confronts-soviet-history-57312 https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/moscows-new-housing-mega... https://khrushchevki.wordpress.com/ https://khrushchevki.wordpress.com/

resource0x 8y ago
Some readers unfamiliar with the matter might conclude based on your post that Khrushchev somehow managed to solve the problem. No. In most places, you had to wait a couple of decades (or longer). I left USSR at the age of 36; we , the family of 4, occupied a 160 sq ft apartment (with "partial conveniences" - you probably know what that means), which we inherited from my grandmother, with no chance of getting anything else in a lifetime. We couldn't buy an apartment either, even if we had money (we didn't) - "cooperative" housing was not available. BTW, I worked as a project lead in a military research center back then, so the situation was not due to low status or something. Here's an article that provides some details (in Russian, sorry): https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html EDIT: BTW, would it be a good idea to organize AMA thread for those who'd like to get some first-hand account of what the life in USSR looked like in the 60s,70s,80s (all aspects, including technology)?
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  Thanks for your addition to my post. Khrushchev built a lot but it was not a fully solved problem, based on your post. I am not Russian, have been to Russia, speak only a little bit of Russian. I think an AMA thread would be a very good idea! I would be interested to hear more about DRAKON and any LISP and AI work that was done during those periods.
- fivre 8y ago
  Perhaps not, but my experience visiting Moscow recently suggests that they're in perhaps a slightly better place? There are dense residential areas in various parts of the city, even if the housing stock is older and less than stellar. Those areas are well-served by transit, which is expanding, improving, and generally seems to function better than most of what's in the Bay Area. It's by no means perfect (protests against renovation/relocation programs and the current waste management snafu clearly demonstrate otherwise), but at least they're doing something, as opposed to what appears to be a partial "ignore the problem and we can keep single-family homes throughout all of the SF Bay Area forever" mentality here.
  - resource0x 8y ago
    If you visited it recently: please keep in mind that modern-day Russia is not USSR. It's completely different country - at least in terms of economy. In USSR, money meant NOTHING. In today's Russia, it means EVERYTHING. That's the difference. EDIT: forgot to mention that Moscow is not a typical Russian city. You won't make a big mistake if you consider it a separate country. Whatever you observe in Moscow is specific to Moscow only. The state of the roads/public transportation across the country at large is (reportedly) not much better than it used to be in USSR (on average).
- foobarian 8y ago
  I love learning about accounts like this because some of it is so alien to the way things work in the Western capitalist system. I grew up later but still saw some tail end of communism and some things like * You were told which job you would get * You would be assigned an apartment to live in. Imagine going to the DMV but instead it's a housing office where you'd get a place * You could opt out of paying for a TV subscription but then a government agent would come to put a seal on the TV. They put a couple of pieces of lead around the electric plug, and crimp them on with a special tool that stamped a tamper-evident pattern. Just wild! * In the early days I am told there would be frequent "work actions" where workers at random companies would be asked to go outside and do manual labor where needed e.g. when clearing right of way for a railroad, laying ties, etc.
opencl 8y ago
Somewhat similar to what the YIMBY people in the US are proposing, the ones in Moscow are currently planned to be torn down to build higher-density housing and many of the people currently living in them are rather upset about it.

resource0x 8y ago

Some readers unfamiliar with the matter might conclude based on your post that Khrushchev somehow managed to solve the problem. No. In most places, you had to wait a couple of decades (or longer). I left USSR at the age of 36; we , the family of 4, occupied a 160 sq ft apartment (with "partial conveniences" - you probably know what that means), which we inherited from my grandmother, with no chance of getting anything else in a lifetime. We couldn't buy an apartment either, even if we had money (we didn't) - "cooperative" housing was not available. BTW, I worked as a project lead in a military research center back then, so the situation was not due to low status or something. Here's an article that provides some details (in Russian, sorry): https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html https://masterok.livejournal.com/2892813.html EDIT: BTW, would it be a good idea to organize AMA thread for those who'd like to get some first-hand account of what the life in USSR looked like in the 60s,70s,80s (all aspects, including technology)?

patrickg_zill 8y ago
Thanks for your addition to my post. Khrushchev built a lot but it was not a fully solved problem, based on your post. I am not Russian, have been to Russia, speak only a little bit of Russian. I think an AMA thread would be a very good idea! I would be interested to hear more about DRAKON and any LISP and AI work that was done during those periods.
fivre 8y ago
Perhaps not, but my experience visiting Moscow recently suggests that they're in perhaps a slightly better place? There are dense residential areas in various parts of the city, even if the housing stock is older and less than stellar. Those areas are well-served by transit, which is expanding, improving, and generally seems to function better than most of what's in the Bay Area. It's by no means perfect (protests against renovation/relocation programs and the current waste management snafu clearly demonstrate otherwise), but at least they're doing something, as opposed to what appears to be a partial "ignore the problem and we can keep single-family homes throughout all of the SF Bay Area forever" mentality here.
- resource0x 8y ago
  If you visited it recently: please keep in mind that modern-day Russia is not USSR. It's completely different country - at least in terms of economy. In USSR, money meant NOTHING. In today's Russia, it means EVERYTHING. That's the difference. EDIT: forgot to mention that Moscow is not a typical Russian city. You won't make a big mistake if you consider it a separate country. Whatever you observe in Moscow is specific to Moscow only. The state of the roads/public transportation across the country at large is (reportedly) not much better than it used to be in USSR (on average).
foobarian 8y ago
I love learning about accounts like this because some of it is so alien to the way things work in the Western capitalist system. I grew up later but still saw some tail end of communism and some things like * You were told which job you would get * You would be assigned an apartment to live in. Imagine going to the DMV but instead it's a housing office where you'd get a place * You could opt out of paying for a TV subscription but then a government agent would come to put a seal on the TV. They put a couple of pieces of lead around the electric plug, and crimp them on with a special tool that stamped a tamper-evident pattern. Just wild! * In the early days I am told there would be frequent "work actions" where workers at random companies would be asked to go outside and do manual labor where needed e.g. when clearing right of way for a railroad, laying ties, etc.

opencl 8y ago

Somewhat similar to what the YIMBY people in the US are proposing, the ones in Moscow are currently planned to be torn down to build higher-density housing and many of the people currently living in them are rather upset about it.