4 ms·

Cheap detached homes are the norm in the vast majority of the United States. What's happening in California and the Northeast Corridor is a serious problem that

Cheap detached homes are the norm in the vast majority of the United States. What's happening in California and the Northeast Corridor is a serious problem that should be addressed, but the issue isn't going to catch on at the national level, because, again, cheap detached homes are the norm in the United States. When Millennials on the coasts talk about how their generation won't ever own homes, I have to wonder if they're seriously that out of touch. Here's a house that's for sale in my hometown of St. Louis. I just picked a neighborhood at random and selected the first house I saw for sale around this price (~$100k): https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Saint-Louis-MO-63116/3019850_zpid/85934_rid/1-_beds/0-600000_price/0-2428_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/38.564794,-90.290579,38.56295,-90.29346_rect/18_zm/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Saint-Louis-MO-63116/3... This is a quiet, safe, well-maintained, working-class neighborhood. That house is nothing to write home about, but it's not a bad little bungalow, either. That'd be a great home for any young family. I get it, I get it -- "but then I'd have to live in St. Louis!" That's funny, I guess, but who is the joke really on? How much is that ocean worth to you?

Zach_the_Lizard 8y ago
> Cheap detached homes are the norm in the vast majority of the United States Perhaps by land area. But not necessarily by population. Something like 1/3rd of the population lives in the DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Throw in the West Coast, Chicago, etc. and you're looking at a much more national problem.
- dionidium 8y ago
  That's a good point, but, despite what some may wish, we don't actually have a national politics that's decided by a straight-up popular vote. There are a lot of people in those cities, but they don't always wield proportional influence on national issues.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >Something like 1/3rd of the population lives in the DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Throw in the West Coast, Chicago, etc. and you're looking at a much more national problem. There's a lot of people who live in single family houses in those areas.
- patio11 8y ago
  Chicago is an odd inclusion in that sentence.
p3llin0r3 8y ago
A lot of people don't seem to understand that not all housing is a good investment, and that paying rent and making your landlord pay for repairs and maintaining the house while you invest your money elsewhere is often the smarter move. How many years do you have to pay mortgage on that house before you break even? What state will the city be in in 15 years? What will your actual ROI be? How long will it take to sell the house? So you can buy a house in St. Louis, one of the worst cities in the US for crime. That doesn't make that house a good investment. It makes it a mediocre investment that will probably barely keep up with inflation and be a pain to sell when you decide to move. Relevant article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-10-year-odyssey-through-americas-housing-crisis-1516981725 https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-10-year-odyssey-through-amer... > I get it, I get it -- "but then I'd have to live in St. Louis!" That's funny, I guess, but who is the joke really on? How much is that ocean worth to you? Ironic sentiment from someone living in New York. I don't see you moving to St. Louis to buy a cheap house.
- dionidium 8y ago
  > I don't see you moving to St. Louis to buy a cheap house. I own a home very near the one in that Zillow link.
madengr 8y ago
You are downvoted by those who realize they are in a rat race. I got the hell off the coast for grad school 25 years ago, and now live in Kansas City suburbs. Good schools, good paying tech job, almost paid for house, and healthy retirement funds. You people are crazy clamoring over those coastal tech jobs. Maybe 1% of you will strike it rich. The rest are in the rat race.
- dionidium 8y ago
  Nah, it's simpler than that. People have some bizarre views about the Midwest, as evidenced by the FUD-laden reply to my post above: - "What about crime!?" (Most of the region is quite safe. The MSA is about middle of the pack on crime. Yes, there are some bad neighborhoods. And there's a ~0% chance anybody reading this on HN would ever live in one of those neighborhoods.) - "How long will it take to sell a house in St. Louis?!" (The housing market is doing fine there.) - "Do they even have jobs in St. Louis?!" (Median household income in the metro is a pretty healthy $52,340.) I think I have a pretty good idea what that guy imagines St. Louis -- and Cincinnati and Indianapolis and Milwaukee and Kansas City -- to be like, and I strongly suspect it's got a pretty loose relationship with reality. Unfortunately for cities like St. Louis, marketing is important, and there's probably nothing I could say that would change that guy's mind. There's almost nothing in his comment that makes any real sense, but it is what it is. From experience, people do not want you to respond to complaints about the high cost of housing on the coasts with evidence that the problem isn't universal. If you accept that the South and the Midwest are legitimate places to live, then you're forced to really consider it, which is difficult -- moving long distances is hard! It's much easier to conclude that those places aren't real options.

Zach_the_Lizard 8y ago

> Cheap detached homes are the norm in the vast majority of the United States Perhaps by land area. But not necessarily by population. Something like 1/3rd of the population lives in the DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Throw in the West Coast, Chicago, etc. and you're looking at a much more national problem.

dionidium 8y ago
That's a good point, but, despite what some may wish, we don't actually have a national politics that's decided by a straight-up popular vote. There are a lot of people in those cities, but they don't always wield proportional influence on national issues.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Something like 1/3rd of the population lives in the DC-NYC-Boston corridor. Throw in the West Coast, Chicago, etc. and you're looking at a much more national problem. There's a lot of people who live in single family houses in those areas.
patio11 8y ago
Chicago is an odd inclusion in that sentence.

p3llin0r3 8y ago

A lot of people don't seem to understand that not all housing is a good investment, and that paying rent and making your landlord pay for repairs and maintaining the house while you invest your money elsewhere is often the smarter move. How many years do you have to pay mortgage on that house before you break even? What state will the city be in in 15 years? What will your actual ROI be? How long will it take to sell the house? So you can buy a house in St. Louis, one of the worst cities in the US for crime. That doesn't make that house a good investment. It makes it a mediocre investment that will probably barely keep up with inflation and be a pain to sell when you decide to move. Relevant article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-10-year-odyssey-through-americas-housing-crisis-1516981725 https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-10-year-odyssey-through-amer... > I get it, I get it -- "but then I'd have to live in St. Louis!" That's funny, I guess, but who is the joke really on? How much is that ocean worth to you? Ironic sentiment from someone living in New York. I don't see you moving to St. Louis to buy a cheap house.

dionidium 8y ago
> I don't see you moving to St. Louis to buy a cheap house. I own a home very near the one in that Zillow link.

madengr 8y ago

You are downvoted by those who realize they are in a rat race. I got the hell off the coast for grad school 25 years ago, and now live in Kansas City suburbs. Good schools, good paying tech job, almost paid for house, and healthy retirement funds. You people are crazy clamoring over those coastal tech jobs. Maybe 1% of you will strike it rich. The rest are in the rat race.

dionidium 8y ago
Nah, it's simpler than that. People have some bizarre views about the Midwest, as evidenced by the FUD-laden reply to my post above: - "What about crime!?" (Most of the region is quite safe. The MSA is about middle of the pack on crime. Yes, there are some bad neighborhoods. And there's a ~0% chance anybody reading this on HN would ever live in one of those neighborhoods.) - "How long will it take to sell a house in St. Louis?!" (The housing market is doing fine there.) - "Do they even have jobs in St. Louis?!" (Median household income in the metro is a pretty healthy $52,340.) I think I have a pretty good idea what that guy imagines St. Louis -- and Cincinnati and Indianapolis and Milwaukee and Kansas City -- to be like, and I strongly suspect it's got a pretty loose relationship with reality. Unfortunately for cities like St. Louis, marketing is important, and there's probably nothing I could say that would change that guy's mind. There's almost nothing in his comment that makes any real sense, but it is what it is. From experience, people do not want you to respond to complaints about the high cost of housing on the coasts with evidence that the problem isn't universal. If you accept that the South and the Midwest are legitimate places to live, then you're forced to really consider it, which is difficult -- moving long distances is hard! It's much easier to conclude that those places aren't real options.