4 ms·

It's a legit concern. There was a NANOG panel about this exact thing. I believe the quote was, "Take a look around. We're all old and greying. We have a severe

by scurvy 8y ago

It's a legit concern. There was a NANOG panel about this exact thing. I believe the quote was, "Take a look around. We're all old and greying. We have a severe pipeline problem." And then much to AWS' dude's dismay, the topic shifted towards blaming cloud services because no one takes the time to learn how any of this works any more. Want to guarantee your child's future employment? Don't just teach them to code (the machines will do that). Teach them how to build networks and truly understand network protocols.

setquk 8y ago
I’m going to teach my children how to navigate the world of insane Harry-Potter-esque rules which all IaaS/PaaS platforms enforce upon you. They will become software language lawyers and be masters of the electric Disney dollar. You know like “ahh don’t call the messaging endpoint more than 800 mega-milli-times per mega-nano-second or it will cost you three bazillion CPU credits, but only on three and a half cores which will starve all your instances, issue an invoice and proceed to melt your credit card.”
- w8rbt 8y ago
  DDOS is now a billing issue.
kazen44 8y ago
> Teach them how to build networks and truly understand network protocols. I don't know how the situation is in the US, but in my country network engineering is actually quite a popular field of study. (we have college level education in network engineering). The one thing that stands out though is that it's mostly done by youngsters who have either sysadmin experience, or worked in IT before that. Almost everyone who comes from high school goes into Software Engineering. I think this is mainly because networking is quite an invisible field so to speak. Many people don't even know your job exists, and many young people only see the shiny hip side of it. (being Software Engineering). Being good at network engineering is hard, especially once you get past entry level work and actually start being responsible for designing large-scale networks. Mainly because building a network is a major financial investment where garuanteeing performance is hard without either a ton of experience, or a shitton of lab time. this kind of work pays very, very well though.
- bordercases 8y ago
  What country?
  - zamber 8y ago
    Netherlands
rootlocus 8y ago
> Don't just teach them to code (the machines will do that). Teach them how to build networks and truly understand network protocols. Building networks and understanding protocols is something machines can do TODAY. The entire internet was built to survive a nuclear war. It can reshape itself, and it most definitely understand network protocols. By definition, protocols are the language of machines over the network. And it's been like this for a few decades. The only reason knowing low level network protocols in a world where machines can code anything (which makes them better analytical thinkers than humans) is to beg the machines for mercy in their ancient tongue.
- gaius 8y ago
  It can reshape itself, and it most definitely understand network protocols It really, really can't! That quote about the Internet interpreting censorship as damage and routing around it? Or the one about information "wanting" to be free? Taken wildly out of context.
  - rootlocus 8y ago
    Then what about routing protocols such as RIP, OSPF, etc? I'm sorry, but I don't know what quotes you're referring to.
    - gaius 8y ago
      Then what about routing protocols such as RIP, OSPF, etc? Don't forget BGP. I don't think they do what you think they do, at least, not to the extent you think they do them. There is a hell of a lot of manual work in running any sizeable network even within a single organisation.
      - rootlocus 8y ago
        And what exactly do they do that I don't understand? > There is a hell of a lot of manual work in running any sizeable network even within a single organisation. I'm not trying to say they do everything, and no manual work is required. I'm trying to say machines are already doing part of it. OP believes that give a world where machines can code, they can't design or maintain networks, which I find truly ridiculous, since machines are pretty far from doing any kind of "coding" today, but they do networking and network protocols pretty well.

by scurvy 8y ago

setquk 8y ago

I’m going to teach my children how to navigate the world of insane Harry-Potter-esque rules which all IaaS/PaaS platforms enforce upon you. They will become software language lawyers and be masters of the electric Disney dollar. You know like “ahh don’t call the messaging endpoint more than 800 mega-milli-times per mega-nano-second or it will cost you three bazillion CPU credits, but only on three and a half cores which will starve all your instances, issue an invoice and proceed to melt your credit card.”

w8rbt 8y ago
DDOS is now a billing issue.

kazen44 8y ago

> Teach them how to build networks and truly understand network protocols. I don't know how the situation is in the US, but in my country network engineering is actually quite a popular field of study. (we have college level education in network engineering). The one thing that stands out though is that it's mostly done by youngsters who have either sysadmin experience, or worked in IT before that. Almost everyone who comes from high school goes into Software Engineering. I think this is mainly because networking is quite an invisible field so to speak. Many people don't even know your job exists, and many young people only see the shiny hip side of it. (being Software Engineering). Being good at network engineering is hard, especially once you get past entry level work and actually start being responsible for designing large-scale networks. Mainly because building a network is a major financial investment where garuanteeing performance is hard without either a ton of experience, or a shitton of lab time. this kind of work pays very, very well though.

bordercases 8y ago
What country?
- zamber 8y ago
  Netherlands

rootlocus 8y ago

> Don't just teach them to code (the machines will do that). Teach them how to build networks and truly understand network protocols. Building networks and understanding protocols is something machines can do TODAY. The entire internet was built to survive a nuclear war. It can reshape itself, and it most definitely understand network protocols. By definition, protocols are the language of machines over the network. And it's been like this for a few decades. The only reason knowing low level network protocols in a world where machines can code anything (which makes them better analytical thinkers than humans) is to beg the machines for mercy in their ancient tongue.

gaius 8y ago
It can reshape itself, and it most definitely understand network protocols It really, really can't! That quote about the Internet interpreting censorship as damage and routing around it? Or the one about information "wanting" to be free? Taken wildly out of context.
- rootlocus 8y ago
  Then what about routing protocols such as RIP, OSPF, etc? I'm sorry, but I don't know what quotes you're referring to.
  - gaius 8y ago
    Then what about routing protocols such as RIP, OSPF, etc? Don't forget BGP. I don't think they do what you think they do, at least, not to the extent you think they do them. There is a hell of a lot of manual work in running any sizeable network even within a single organisation.
    - rootlocus 8y ago
      And what exactly do they do that I don't understand? > There is a hell of a lot of manual work in running any sizeable network even within a single organisation. I'm not trying to say they do everything, and no manual work is required. I'm trying to say machines are already doing part of it. OP believes that give a world where machines can code, they can't design or maintain networks, which I find truly ridiculous, since machines are pretty far from doing any kind of "coding" today, but they do networking and network protocols pretty well.