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There's a difference between avoiding answering a question to prevent hurting someone's feelings, and doing so just to put yourself in a positive light (for sel

by nocman 8y ago

There's a difference between avoiding answering a question to prevent hurting someone's feelings, and doing so just to put yourself in a positive light (for selfish reasons). The scenario I was envisioning was the former. Yeah I understand that some people try to spin everything their way, and I know it's annoying. My point was that just because someone doesn't answer a question or doesn't tell you everything they think in a situation, that doesn't mean that they are being dishonest.

lovich 8y ago
In this scenario you were asked one question, but answered another when saying "thank you for making it", because you didn't want to deal with the social fallout of actually telling the truth to the original question. I don't see how that's not mental gymnastics to say it's not lieing, which seems like a big divide in this thread
- nocman 8y ago
  It's actually very simple, and not at all mental gymnastics. It's not a lie because I didn't say something that was not true. Again you are saying that me not answering a question is equivalent to me lying, and you are simply wrong about that. They are not the same thing.
  - lovich 8y ago
    Talking to people is not computer code. In this admittedly contrived situation, they are looking for you to say it's good. You give an answer _to a different question_. Either people realize and you've violated the social expectation or they don't realize and you've misdirected them. Avoiding the question in a way that's misleading people has the same result as a lie even if not technically the same thing If you refused to answer the question in this statement that's not lieing. If you said "no, it wasn't good" that wouldn't be lieing. The entire camp of people in this thread with your viewpoint are acting like a stereotypical genie where as long as everything you say is technically accurate you have done nothing wrong even when you are will full disregarding the extra layers of meaning that are part of human to human conversation
    - nocman 8y ago
      "Talking to people is not computer code." irrelevant. I never said it was. Also, saying "thank you for making it" isn't answering a question at all, so it isn't "answering a different question". "The entire camp of people in this thread" with my viewpoint simply disagree with you. You attribute dishonesty to things we would say, when we know that saying those things would be honest. So you can keep reiterating the same viewpoint over and over again, and I'll keep disagreeing with it every time (regardless of whether I spend the time to reply again).
      - lovich 8y ago
        You didn't say that talking to people was like computer code, you are describing talking to people like it's computer code so it is relevant. >Also, saying "thank you for making it" isn't answering a question at all, so it isn't "answering a different question". Saying that you're not lieing because you are haven't said something that is false out of context, but is still misleading _on purpose_ is the most pedantic thing I have heard all year. And just don't reply if you are going to be done with a discussion, telling people you might not bother replying to them is condescending and uncivil for this board
        nocman 8y ago
        > You didn't say that talking to people was like computer code, you are describing talking to people like it's computer code so it is relevant. That's your opinion, which I disagree with. So from my view it is still irrelevant. I'm willing to agree to disagree on that point. > And just don't reply if you are going to be done with a discussion, telling people you might not bother replying to them is condescending and uncivil for this board There was nothing uncivil, nor condescending about what I said. I just said I would continue to disagree even if I didn't continue the conversation. I think we've pretty much beaten this disagreement to death, and it's time for me to move on.
        learc83 8y ago
        >That's your opinion, which I disagree with. So from my view it is still irrelevant. It's not irrelevant just because you disagree with it. That's not what irrelevant means. It would be irrelevant if the truth or falsehood of the statement had no impact on the rest of the argument. >I think we've pretty much beaten this disagreement to death, and it's time for me to move on. Then just move on...stop trying to get the last word in. (I'm not the person you were replying).
dkersten 8y ago
My point is that some people will always see avoiding answering questions negatively, no matter what way you feel it should be seen. You can’t control how other people interpret your acitons or intentions, they may not match up with what you want, and in my personal experience, people tend to see avoiding answering a question (either by sidestepping it or by counter-questioning) negatively, if they notice it.

by nocman 8y ago

lovich 8y ago

In this scenario you were asked one question, but answered another when saying "thank you for making it", because you didn't want to deal with the social fallout of actually telling the truth to the original question. I don't see how that's not mental gymnastics to say it's not lieing, which seems like a big divide in this thread

nocman 8y ago
It's actually very simple, and not at all mental gymnastics. It's not a lie because I didn't say something that was not true. Again you are saying that me not answering a question is equivalent to me lying, and you are simply wrong about that. They are not the same thing.
- lovich 8y ago
  Talking to people is not computer code. In this admittedly contrived situation, they are looking for you to say it's good. You give an answer _to a different question_. Either people realize and you've violated the social expectation or they don't realize and you've misdirected them. Avoiding the question in a way that's misleading people has the same result as a lie even if not technically the same thing If you refused to answer the question in this statement that's not lieing. If you said "no, it wasn't good" that wouldn't be lieing. The entire camp of people in this thread with your viewpoint are acting like a stereotypical genie where as long as everything you say is technically accurate you have done nothing wrong even when you are will full disregarding the extra layers of meaning that are part of human to human conversation
  - nocman 8y ago
    "Talking to people is not computer code." irrelevant. I never said it was. Also, saying "thank you for making it" isn't answering a question at all, so it isn't "answering a different question". "The entire camp of people in this thread" with my viewpoint simply disagree with you. You attribute dishonesty to things we would say, when we know that saying those things would be honest. So you can keep reiterating the same viewpoint over and over again, and I'll keep disagreeing with it every time (regardless of whether I spend the time to reply again).
    - lovich 8y ago
      You didn't say that talking to people was like computer code, you are describing talking to people like it's computer code so it is relevant. >Also, saying "thank you for making it" isn't answering a question at all, so it isn't "answering a different question". Saying that you're not lieing because you are haven't said something that is false out of context, but is still misleading _on purpose_ is the most pedantic thing I have heard all year. And just don't reply if you are going to be done with a discussion, telling people you might not bother replying to them is condescending and uncivil for this board
      - nocman 8y ago
        > You didn't say that talking to people was like computer code, you are describing talking to people like it's computer code so it is relevant. That's your opinion, which I disagree with. So from my view it is still irrelevant. I'm willing to agree to disagree on that point. > And just don't reply if you are going to be done with a discussion, telling people you might not bother replying to them is condescending and uncivil for this board There was nothing uncivil, nor condescending about what I said. I just said I would continue to disagree even if I didn't continue the conversation. I think we've pretty much beaten this disagreement to death, and it's time for me to move on.
        learc83 8y ago
        >That's your opinion, which I disagree with. So from my view it is still irrelevant. It's not irrelevant just because you disagree with it. That's not what irrelevant means. It would be irrelevant if the truth or falsehood of the statement had no impact on the rest of the argument. >I think we've pretty much beaten this disagreement to death, and it's time for me to move on. Then just move on...stop trying to get the last word in. (I'm not the person you were replying).

dkersten 8y ago

My point is that some people will always see avoiding answering questions negatively, no matter what way you feel it should be seen. You can’t control how other people interpret your acitons or intentions, they may not match up with what you want, and in my personal experience, people tend to see avoiding answering a question (either by sidestepping it or by counter-questioning) negatively, if they notice it.