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The first person people lie to is themselves. For a person that doesn't have a personal commitment to integrity, when they are placed in a position where they a

The first person people lie to is themselves. For a person that doesn't have a personal commitment to integrity, when they are placed in a position where they are incentivized to lie, they will first convince themselves that this lie is either harmless (we are going to lose the account anyway, what is the point of getting everyone mad at me) or the lie is for a good cause. Once that is done, usually unconsciously, then they can tell the lie. I used to own a business, and I hired people that I knew, nice people. I learned that I should never hire anyone who was not trustworthy, to myself or others, it's just not worth it. One of my friends attended part of the hiring process by telling his current employer that he was sick. This raised red flags in my mind, but I thought, surely he wouldn't do that to me, his friend? Later he did sloppy work and hid it from me with lies, the company almost fell apart. One of many similar stories. If you have a habit of convenient lies, when the pressure is on and the fear is in your gut, you're going to lie. Don't lie to yourself about it :)

eeZah7Ux 8y ago
> personal commitment to integrity Psychology seems to be way more complex than "once a liar always a liar". Some citation of psychological research would help.
- phyller 8y ago
  I didn't make that claim. What I am implying though, is that in order to be a person of integrity I do believe it takes some forethought. In the heat of the moment, when you are very incentivized to lie, everything is going to be pushing you to take the easy way out and you will. If, however, you have thought about it, and made a decision before these moments even occur, you have a chance. Even then I don't think you will always be successful. Certainly people can change and improve themselves. I don't believe "once an x always an x" for anything I can think of. Turns out, what I am saying is all backed up by a study which took about a minute of Googling to find: https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4426#affil-auth https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4426#affil-auth "Here we provide empirical evidence for a gradual escalation of self-serving dishonesty and reveal a neural mechanism supporting it. Behaviorally, we show that the extent to which participants engage in self-serving dishonesty increases with repetition. Using functional MRI, we show that signal reduction in the amygdala is sensitive to the history of dishonest behavior, consistent with adaptation. Critically, the extent of reduced amygdala sensitivity to dishonesty on a present decision relative to the previous one predicts the magnitude of escalation of self-serving dishonesty on the next decision. The findings uncover a biological mechanism that supports a 'slippery slope': what begins as small acts of dishonesty can escalate into larger transgressions."
magduf 8y ago
So exactly how do you think your friend should have handled it? Tell his employer he was checking out a potential new job? How do you think that would have gone? You think someone of "integrity" needs to ruin their current employment every time they even think about finding a new job?
- phyller 8y ago
  This is another problem with people who lie, it actually takes practice to be both truthful and tactful, and they don't even know how to do it. It's crazy to me that I have to say this, but as has already been stated in this thread, being truthful doesn't mean you have to constantly spew everything you are thinking, stream of consciousness style. You just don't mislead people. What he should have done was a) coordinate a time with me when he was off work anyway or b) ask for a day off. He doesn't need to explain why, he could have said it was a personal day, it's not his bosses business. I don't expect someone to work two jobs simultaneously, we'd have easily worked it out. I no longer run my own business. When I am looking for new employment, I do my current job, and do my job search when I can fit it in. If I need to take time off I take it. That didn't even occur to you?
  - magduf 8y ago
    >being truthful doesn't mean you have to constantly spew everything you are thinking, stream of consciousness style. You just don't mislead people. We're not talking about spewing all your private thoughts to people, we're talking about responding to questions. You take a day off from work to go on an interview, and your boss asks you if you're interviewing. What's your response? People like you apparently spill the truth, and get fired. People like me find some way of lying about it ("I wasn't feeling well", "my kid was sick", etc.) so we don't get terminated before we're actually ready to make a move. >What he should have done was a) coordinate a time with me when he was off work anyway or b) ask for a day off. He doesn't need to explain why Wrong. Maybe you wouldn't ask why, but another manager might. You cannot guarantee that all managers are like you. Unless you can guarantee that no boss anywhere on the planet will ask invasive questions in this scenario (following your own advice about asking for a day off, which is exactly what I've done when I went on interviews), then you have no right to expect anyone to be honest. People lie because other people have bad behavior, and those people have greater power. Lying is the proper response to protect yourself. >If I need to take time off I take it. That didn't even occur to you? That's exactly what I do too. What makes you think I don't? The problem is if your boss pries, and asks why. I'm not going to tell the truth here, and not I'm sorry if that offends your morality. Luckily, I've had good bosses in recent years who didn't ask, so I didn't have to resort to this, but I can certainly see how someone might have a crappy boss who is nosy and asks improper and invasive questions like this. For those people, lying is the proper response. The boss is obviously bad, which means they obviously need to find a better job, but they're also working on that, and it's unreasonable to demand that they quit their job (or risk being fired) while doing a job search. My most recent job search took about 3 months (though I didn't get really serious until the last ~1.5); it can take some time to find just the right opportunity that you want to jump ship for.

eeZah7Ux 8y ago

> personal commitment to integrity Psychology seems to be way more complex than "once a liar always a liar". Some citation of psychological research would help.

phyller 8y ago
I didn't make that claim. What I am implying though, is that in order to be a person of integrity I do believe it takes some forethought. In the heat of the moment, when you are very incentivized to lie, everything is going to be pushing you to take the easy way out and you will. If, however, you have thought about it, and made a decision before these moments even occur, you have a chance. Even then I don't think you will always be successful. Certainly people can change and improve themselves. I don't believe "once an x always an x" for anything I can think of. Turns out, what I am saying is all backed up by a study which took about a minute of Googling to find: https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4426#affil-auth https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4426#affil-auth "Here we provide empirical evidence for a gradual escalation of self-serving dishonesty and reveal a neural mechanism supporting it. Behaviorally, we show that the extent to which participants engage in self-serving dishonesty increases with repetition. Using functional MRI, we show that signal reduction in the amygdala is sensitive to the history of dishonest behavior, consistent with adaptation. Critically, the extent of reduced amygdala sensitivity to dishonesty on a present decision relative to the previous one predicts the magnitude of escalation of self-serving dishonesty on the next decision. The findings uncover a biological mechanism that supports a 'slippery slope': what begins as small acts of dishonesty can escalate into larger transgressions."

magduf 8y ago

So exactly how do you think your friend should have handled it? Tell his employer he was checking out a potential new job? How do you think that would have gone? You think someone of "integrity" needs to ruin their current employment every time they even think about finding a new job?

phyller 8y ago
This is another problem with people who lie, it actually takes practice to be both truthful and tactful, and they don't even know how to do it. It's crazy to me that I have to say this, but as has already been stated in this thread, being truthful doesn't mean you have to constantly spew everything you are thinking, stream of consciousness style. You just don't mislead people. What he should have done was a) coordinate a time with me when he was off work anyway or b) ask for a day off. He doesn't need to explain why, he could have said it was a personal day, it's not his bosses business. I don't expect someone to work two jobs simultaneously, we'd have easily worked it out. I no longer run my own business. When I am looking for new employment, I do my current job, and do my job search when I can fit it in. If I need to take time off I take it. That didn't even occur to you?
- magduf 8y ago
  >being truthful doesn't mean you have to constantly spew everything you are thinking, stream of consciousness style. You just don't mislead people. We're not talking about spewing all your private thoughts to people, we're talking about responding to questions. You take a day off from work to go on an interview, and your boss asks you if you're interviewing. What's your response? People like you apparently spill the truth, and get fired. People like me find some way of lying about it ("I wasn't feeling well", "my kid was sick", etc.) so we don't get terminated before we're actually ready to make a move. >What he should have done was a) coordinate a time with me when he was off work anyway or b) ask for a day off. He doesn't need to explain why Wrong. Maybe you wouldn't ask why, but another manager might. You cannot guarantee that all managers are like you. Unless you can guarantee that no boss anywhere on the planet will ask invasive questions in this scenario (following your own advice about asking for a day off, which is exactly what I've done when I went on interviews), then you have no right to expect anyone to be honest. People lie because other people have bad behavior, and those people have greater power. Lying is the proper response to protect yourself. >If I need to take time off I take it. That didn't even occur to you? That's exactly what I do too. What makes you think I don't? The problem is if your boss pries, and asks why. I'm not going to tell the truth here, and not I'm sorry if that offends your morality. Luckily, I've had good bosses in recent years who didn't ask, so I didn't have to resort to this, but I can certainly see how someone might have a crappy boss who is nosy and asks improper and invasive questions like this. For those people, lying is the proper response. The boss is obviously bad, which means they obviously need to find a better job, but they're also working on that, and it's unreasonable to demand that they quit their job (or risk being fired) while doing a job search. My most recent job search took about 3 months (though I didn't get really serious until the last ~1.5); it can take some time to find just the right opportunity that you want to jump ship for.