5 ms·

The path to becoming a mason is first by reaching out to your local lodge. The person who responds can help you with the process. Beyond masons, there are the

The path to becoming a mason is first by reaching out to your local lodge. The person who responds can help you with the process. Beyond masons, there are the elks, the moose, and in parts of the West Clampers. Each have their lodges, their rituals, and focus. I started the mason path, but life got busy. I’m a Moose member and a Clamper. In all cases, the focus is community. In most cases, and this is what I appreciate, you are dealing with people across the spectrum of jobs/backgrounds/and economics.

csa 8y ago
|_o
emodendroket 8y ago
That sounds like a secular version of a church or something. Am I in the right ballpark?
- ControlledBurn 8y ago
  Eh, kind of. There's a no atheists allowed rule last I checked (A belief in a supreme being and scripture is a condition of membership), but they're not picky about what god(s) you might worship.
  - M_Bakhtiari 8y ago
    That's the root of the problem of freemasonry. It means that a freemason have to hold contradictory positions as true. One might be an atheist by one cannot reject the so-called supreme being, one might belong to an Abrahamic religion but one cannot reject the Hindu pantheon. And within the Abrahamic religions it's more contentious than anything. It's an expression of the Orwellian "2 + 2 = 5", and it's a very dangerous anti-realist totalitarian ideology, and it should be rejected whether you're a theist or an atheist.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      I don't think I follow. From what I've read here, the question is "do you believe in any higher power at all?" which everyone except a committed atheist could answer "yes" truthfully (and even then, an atheist could presumably accept some sort of "life-force" that isn't a god).
      - mrbill 8y ago
        Correct. The question is "do you believe in a higher power y/n?" not "give us details on what you think of said higher power". In ceremony/ritual we refer generally to "The Grand Architect of the Universe", instead of any specific diety. BTW, Freemasonry is NOT intended to be a religion nor a replacement for one, and we don't want to be. We just use symbols and allegory that relate to the story of the building of King Solomon's Temple.
    - wl 8y ago
      That's completely incorrect. Freemasonry expects religious tolerance. That is, Freemasonry generally believes people have the right to believe and practice religion as their conscience dictates. That also means that generally speaking, Freemasons should respect the religious beliefs of others. That doesn't mean Freemasons are required to adopt other people's religious beliefs or refrain from disagreeing with them.
- cookiecaper 8y ago
  Not a Mason, but yes, that's my take. Lodges provide the essential community functions and the recognition of a "universal brotherhood", without requiring any specific theological pronouncements (other than a basic acknowledgement that a "higher power" exists, which is vague enough to allow anyone). This allows virtually everyone in the community the ability to join and work together, more-or-less regardless of individual background or tradition. Historically, secular fraternities like the Freemasons played a big role in keeping mixed-denomination communities communal, instead of fracturing off into hard, non-fluid segments. I would conjecture that we owe a lot of our cultural religious tolerance to the foundations of trust and community laid in the Masonic lodges of yore. IMO it's a shame that these groups are not very widely established anymore (at least among "younger" people, who are now becoming "older" people). These fraternities do a great deal to help adults, families, and whole communities. The only reason I haven't personally seriously inquired into joining such a group is that I'm already in a very active church community that covers most of the Masonic functions, and I have enough trouble just keeping up with that. I'd miss too many lodge meetings, etc. For anyone who is floating or looking for a consistent community to anchor against, that will be there as an instant community even if you move around, Freemasonry or similar orgs are really worth investigating.
  - magduf 8y ago
    As you said, these organizations aren't too friendly to atheists, and non-atheists are likely to be members of some church, so of course they're going to be busy with that, as you yourself experienced. I guess people in the past had more free time to spend on non-work activities like this.
- ianhawes 8y ago
  The proper term is "Third place" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    > In community building, the third place is the social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home ("first place") and the workplace ("second place"). Examples of third places would be environments such as churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, or parks. Seems too broad to really be helpful in this discussion. The park in Chinatown where people gather to play xiangqi is a "third place" but nothing like a church or Masonic lodge.
BigChiefSmokem 8y ago
I wish there was a HN virtual lodge or something more intimate than this. Sometimes I feel like only you guys will understand the things im expressing and tbh I would love to illuminati some (adjective) and change/guide the world in more real ways than simply through corporation and finance. And aren't modern day hackers the very descendants of the original Freemasons? You know, the ones that actually had to build (and rebuild) Rome.
jwives 8y ago
Thanks for all of the plaques :)

csa 8y ago

|_o

emodendroket 8y ago

That sounds like a secular version of a church or something. Am I in the right ballpark?

ControlledBurn 8y ago
Eh, kind of. There's a no atheists allowed rule last I checked (A belief in a supreme being and scripture is a condition of membership), but they're not picky about what god(s) you might worship.
- M_Bakhtiari 8y ago
  That's the root of the problem of freemasonry. It means that a freemason have to hold contradictory positions as true. One might be an atheist by one cannot reject the so-called supreme being, one might belong to an Abrahamic religion but one cannot reject the Hindu pantheon. And within the Abrahamic religions it's more contentious than anything. It's an expression of the Orwellian "2 + 2 = 5", and it's a very dangerous anti-realist totalitarian ideology, and it should be rejected whether you're a theist or an atheist.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I don't think I follow. From what I've read here, the question is "do you believe in any higher power at all?" which everyone except a committed atheist could answer "yes" truthfully (and even then, an atheist could presumably accept some sort of "life-force" that isn't a god).
    - mrbill 8y ago
      Correct. The question is "do you believe in a higher power y/n?" not "give us details on what you think of said higher power". In ceremony/ritual we refer generally to "The Grand Architect of the Universe", instead of any specific diety. BTW, Freemasonry is NOT intended to be a religion nor a replacement for one, and we don't want to be. We just use symbols and allegory that relate to the story of the building of King Solomon's Temple.
  - wl 8y ago
    That's completely incorrect. Freemasonry expects religious tolerance. That is, Freemasonry generally believes people have the right to believe and practice religion as their conscience dictates. That also means that generally speaking, Freemasons should respect the religious beliefs of others. That doesn't mean Freemasons are required to adopt other people's religious beliefs or refrain from disagreeing with them.
cookiecaper 8y ago
Not a Mason, but yes, that's my take. Lodges provide the essential community functions and the recognition of a "universal brotherhood", without requiring any specific theological pronouncements (other than a basic acknowledgement that a "higher power" exists, which is vague enough to allow anyone). This allows virtually everyone in the community the ability to join and work together, more-or-less regardless of individual background or tradition. Historically, secular fraternities like the Freemasons played a big role in keeping mixed-denomination communities communal, instead of fracturing off into hard, non-fluid segments. I would conjecture that we owe a lot of our cultural religious tolerance to the foundations of trust and community laid in the Masonic lodges of yore. IMO it's a shame that these groups are not very widely established anymore (at least among "younger" people, who are now becoming "older" people). These fraternities do a great deal to help adults, families, and whole communities. The only reason I haven't personally seriously inquired into joining such a group is that I'm already in a very active church community that covers most of the Masonic functions, and I have enough trouble just keeping up with that. I'd miss too many lodge meetings, etc. For anyone who is floating or looking for a consistent community to anchor against, that will be there as an instant community even if you move around, Freemasonry or similar orgs are really worth investigating.
- magduf 8y ago
  As you said, these organizations aren't too friendly to atheists, and non-atheists are likely to be members of some church, so of course they're going to be busy with that, as you yourself experienced. I guess people in the past had more free time to spend on non-work activities like this.
ianhawes 8y ago
The proper term is "Third place" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
- emodendroket 8y ago
  > In community building, the third place is the social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home ("first place") and the workplace ("second place"). Examples of third places would be environments such as churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, or parks. Seems too broad to really be helpful in this discussion. The park in Chinatown where people gather to play xiangqi is a "third place" but nothing like a church or Masonic lodge.

BigChiefSmokem 8y ago

I wish there was a HN virtual lodge or something more intimate than this. Sometimes I feel like only you guys will understand the things im expressing and tbh I would love to illuminati some (adjective) and change/guide the world in more real ways than simply through corporation and finance. And aren't modern day hackers the very descendants of the original Freemasons? You know, the ones that actually had to build (and rebuild) Rome.

jwives 8y ago

Thanks for all of the plaques :)