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In my experience, few good employees quit because they are unhappy. People are good at enduring unhappiness for money,opportunities or acheiving a goal. From w

In my experience, few good employees quit because they are unhappy. People are good at enduring unhappiness for money,opportunities or acheiving a goal. From what I have seen, it is usually some political or administrative mistreatment that ends up being "the straw that broke the camel's back". I will accept low pay, a bad manager ,cruel colleagues and a ridiculous work environment so long as I get to do the technical work I have passion for, I don't get treated unequally (except where objective meritocracy applies) and I don't get lied to by my manager. Of course, it should go without saying -- if the competition scouts me and offers better conditions I wouldn't reject that offer. Corporate america plays too many "games" against rank and file workers. It makes me a bit envious of all the Enterpreneurs and employees of new startups. The Business hasn't gotten old enough to think up all these devious schemes to save a buck by mistreating workers. I wonder,Is it like getting into a brand new marriage? Sorry for my pessimistic post, can only speak from my own personal experience. I get attached to coworkers easily and had to quit a few jobs because of b.s.

Clubber 8y ago
>few good employees quit because they are unhappy. >From what I have seen, it is usually some political or administrative mistreatment that ends up being "the straw that broke the camel's back". That makes them unhappy. It's rampant in the US. Programming is a creative endeavor, but most managers only know prod-ops or call center type management. You can't manage creatives that way. We actually had a guy a couple companies ago try to get developers to do time cards like at McDonalds. Another guy decided developers didn't deserve offices, so he kicked all the developer leads out and brought managers from another group to take their offices. That made our DBA of 5 years resign, and he was the best I've ever seen. It's like they don't even consider the effects their decisions have on morale; completely oblivious. I think scrum makes development miserable, but it's a lot of shit. If I work a few 60-80 hour weeks, I don't expect to be scolded for leaving early once crunch time is over, yet it happens over and over again. There's all kinds of stupidness in corporate America. It didn't used to be like this. Maybe it was but I was young and willingly suffered fools. If I had to boil it down, it's lack of trust and inability to treat different employees differently. They create policies for the lowest common denominator, like work from home. If one guy is a slacker, instead of firing his ass, they force everyone else to work in the office because, "well if I let you do it, I have to let everyone else do it." No, grow a sack and fire the slackers; otherwise, that's all you'll have left. All this comes from big corporate managers. Smaller companies are usually better, but not always. If they hire a corporate bozo, they'll quickly go down hill too. M&A ruins a lot of great companies too. What I do to combat it is have 6 months of income or 10 months of expenses saved up (around that) just for this purpose. If a place becomes too annoying, I just leave and take a couple of months off to unwind and write stuff I like to write. If I'm not dealing with a corporate environment, I can get things done 2-5x faster. Corporate America just sucks the soul right out of you.
- some_account 8y ago
  You don't get respect because non tech managers see you as factory workers.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    Sadly, a lot of this came from CIOs, so even tech managers see people as factory workers. In my experience, tech management is just so bad in the US, it's bewildering. It's like they got their training by watching Office Space.
    - some_account 8y ago
      Yeah I agree. And scrum is just a way to micro manage developers and take away decision power from engineers. I'm getting tired of the entire industry.
      - Clubber 8y ago
        Yes, me to. It's sad, I once loved it so. I have no idea what I would leave it for though.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    I think this says something about the disrespect for factory workers, honestly. Both groups laborers deserve humanity.
jaimebuelta 8y ago
I'd say most people quite because they are unhappy. Specially good employees. Someone unhappy will look for new opportunities. Someone happy probably won't (unless they came to them, which also happens). Sure, you can pay premium to protect against lower offers, but it's a tricky game. Rands had this metaphor of "shields up/down" for those cases: http://randsinrepose.com/archives/shields-down/ http://randsinrepose.com/archives/shields-down/
- badrabbit 8y ago
  A lot of employees are unhappy. But not all of them quit. My point was that unhappiness can be endured but there is usually something specific that causes the employee to give up on the company. For me and a few others I know who left for a better opportunity,we were already unhappy but we wanted to stay,endure and make it work.but we all had specific moments where we decided the employee-employer relationship is unacceptable. We didn't merely drift out of our jobs out of unhappiness that built up over time. The only exception I know is people who get burned out.

Clubber 8y ago

>few good employees quit because they are unhappy. >From what I have seen, it is usually some political or administrative mistreatment that ends up being "the straw that broke the camel's back". That makes them unhappy. It's rampant in the US. Programming is a creative endeavor, but most managers only know prod-ops or call center type management. You can't manage creatives that way. We actually had a guy a couple companies ago try to get developers to do time cards like at McDonalds. Another guy decided developers didn't deserve offices, so he kicked all the developer leads out and brought managers from another group to take their offices. That made our DBA of 5 years resign, and he was the best I've ever seen. It's like they don't even consider the effects their decisions have on morale; completely oblivious. I think scrum makes development miserable, but it's a lot of shit. If I work a few 60-80 hour weeks, I don't expect to be scolded for leaving early once crunch time is over, yet it happens over and over again. There's all kinds of stupidness in corporate America. It didn't used to be like this. Maybe it was but I was young and willingly suffered fools. If I had to boil it down, it's lack of trust and inability to treat different employees differently. They create policies for the lowest common denominator, like work from home. If one guy is a slacker, instead of firing his ass, they force everyone else to work in the office because, "well if I let you do it, I have to let everyone else do it." No, grow a sack and fire the slackers; otherwise, that's all you'll have left. All this comes from big corporate managers. Smaller companies are usually better, but not always. If they hire a corporate bozo, they'll quickly go down hill too. M&A ruins a lot of great companies too. What I do to combat it is have 6 months of income or 10 months of expenses saved up (around that) just for this purpose. If a place becomes too annoying, I just leave and take a couple of months off to unwind and write stuff I like to write. If I'm not dealing with a corporate environment, I can get things done 2-5x faster. Corporate America just sucks the soul right out of you.

some_account 8y ago
You don't get respect because non tech managers see you as factory workers.
- Clubber 8y ago
  Sadly, a lot of this came from CIOs, so even tech managers see people as factory workers. In my experience, tech management is just so bad in the US, it's bewildering. It's like they got their training by watching Office Space.
  - some_account 8y ago
    Yeah I agree. And scrum is just a way to micro manage developers and take away decision power from engineers. I'm getting tired of the entire industry.
    - Clubber 8y ago
      Yes, me to. It's sad, I once loved it so. I have no idea what I would leave it for though.
- acct1771 8y ago
  I think this says something about the disrespect for factory workers, honestly. Both groups laborers deserve humanity.

jaimebuelta 8y ago

I'd say most people quite because they are unhappy. Specially good employees. Someone unhappy will look for new opportunities. Someone happy probably won't (unless they came to them, which also happens). Sure, you can pay premium to protect against lower offers, but it's a tricky game. Rands had this metaphor of "shields up/down" for those cases: http://randsinrepose.com/archives/shields-down/ http://randsinrepose.com/archives/shields-down/

badrabbit 8y ago
A lot of employees are unhappy. But not all of them quit. My point was that unhappiness can be endured but there is usually something specific that causes the employee to give up on the company. For me and a few others I know who left for a better opportunity,we were already unhappy but we wanted to stay,endure and make it work.but we all had specific moments where we decided the employee-employer relationship is unacceptable. We didn't merely drift out of our jobs out of unhappiness that built up over time. The only exception I know is people who get burned out.