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Fun Talisker story. I'm at a nice underground (literally) bar here in Melbourne, Australia, with an excellent selection of whisky. A young-ish but well dressed

Fun Talisker story. I'm at a nice underground (literally) bar here in Melbourne, Australia, with an excellent selection of whisky. A young-ish but well dressed lad next to me was eyeing off the selection. Clearly wanted "a whisky" but had no idea what. "Talisker is an excellent choice", I said, knowing that some of the heavier stuff – I go for a Lagavulin – would probably be a bit too much for his uninitiated palate. He looked at the bottle. He realised it was "only" ten years old. And he said "no, I need something older". I let the foolish young chap make his own decision. (Oh, and curse you Americans for your ludicrous booze prices. A bottle of Lagavulin 16 here is $75.)

wheels 8y ago
To amplify that -- often whisky doesn't get better with age, or at least, not significantly enough to justify the price hike. I've tried (at the local whisky festival) most of the Talisker range, including distiller's editions, up to the 25 year old. The 10 year old is their stand-up whisky. But beyond that, Scotch ages particularly slowly, because it, by law, can only be aged in reused barrels. A 10 year old bourbon is as old as the stones, because the barrels are, unsurprisingly, most reactive before being soaked with spirits for several years. Scotch, uniquely, mandates that the barrels cannot be first-use -- they have to be reused barrels from something else, which necessitates the very long aging times.
- stock_toaster 8y ago
  Many of the peat phenols (or is it esthers?) tend to break down over time in the cask, so peaty/smokey scotches actually can lose flavor over time — though with a good cask they can pick up woody complexity. Younger islas tend to be more vigorous! Edit: I don’t believe there is a requirement in the law to only use previously used barrels. They are just cheaper (boubon IS by law required to use only new casks, which results in a lot of availability), and aren’t quite as active, allowing for more gentle maturation.
- stevekemp 8y ago
  I think this depends on your preferences. I like the Balvenie range, and that is easily available in 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 20, 25, & 30 year old varieties. For sure the 30 year old bottle is €300 compared to €30 for the 8 year old, and it is hard to rationally say that it is ten times better, but it is _different_ and it tastes great. I'd never pick a bottle based purely on the age, but there are differences and I personally tend to gravitate to the 18+ ages when I'm picking my single-malts.
Hannan 8y ago
>> Oh, and curse you Americans for your ludicrous booze prices. A bottle of Lagavulin 16 here is $75. I'll readily admit the heavier cost is easier to swallow given our petrol and electricity prices. edit: petrol instead of gas
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  It doesn't even help to live near the brewery. I drive through Tennessee and Kentucky frequently, and bourbon is more expensive than gasoline. The price is mostly taxes, regulatory compliance, trademark, and water rights. If you're willing to scoff at the law, you can get something that tastes similar to a well-aged bourbon from an unlicensed distiller at a very low (relative) price, and any time you might have to wait for it is mostly because their trustworthy high-volume purchasers can jump ahead of you in line at any time. The moonshiners use tricks to flavor their product that are prohibited by law to anyone that wants to sell "bourbon" or "Tennessee whiskey", but since they're already outlaw, it doesn't cost them anything extra to put charred wood splints in a vat instead of using whole wood barrels, and forcibly cycle temperature and pressure to simulate the barrel-aging processes. This area is just swimming in cheap grains, especially feed corn (aka maize), soft red winter wheat, barley, rice, rye, and sorghum. You can make beer out of any of it, and distill any beer into hard liquor. If you strip it down to pure azeotropic grain alcohol, you can dilute it back to 80 proof and add whatever flavors you want. Some of the old-school outlaws have "gone legit" and sell their stuff (largely outsourced to one big industrial distillery, with one tiny local distillery kept mostly for show) as "flavored vodka" now. But that's just as expensive as anything else, because now they pay their taxes and comply with the laws and regulations. It really is ludicrous. It is so cheap to make liquor here.
  - DennisP 8y ago
    I don't doubt there's plenty of illegal stuff but it's not illegal to sell whiskey like that, as long as you don't call it bourbon. Calling it whiskey is fine (though I don't know if there's a law on "Tennessee whiskey"). Legitimate craft distillers make all sorts of weird whiskeys.

wheels 8y ago

To amplify that -- often whisky doesn't get better with age, or at least, not significantly enough to justify the price hike. I've tried (at the local whisky festival) most of the Talisker range, including distiller's editions, up to the 25 year old. The 10 year old is their stand-up whisky. But beyond that, Scotch ages particularly slowly, because it, by law, can only be aged in reused barrels. A 10 year old bourbon is as old as the stones, because the barrels are, unsurprisingly, most reactive before being soaked with spirits for several years. Scotch, uniquely, mandates that the barrels cannot be first-use -- they have to be reused barrels from something else, which necessitates the very long aging times.

stock_toaster 8y ago
Many of the peat phenols (or is it esthers?) tend to break down over time in the cask, so peaty/smokey scotches actually can lose flavor over time — though with a good cask they can pick up woody complexity. Younger islas tend to be more vigorous! Edit: I don’t believe there is a requirement in the law to only use previously used barrels. They are just cheaper (boubon IS by law required to use only new casks, which results in a lot of availability), and aren’t quite as active, allowing for more gentle maturation.
stevekemp 8y ago
I think this depends on your preferences. I like the Balvenie range, and that is easily available in 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 20, 25, & 30 year old varieties. For sure the 30 year old bottle is €300 compared to €30 for the 8 year old, and it is hard to rationally say that it is ten times better, but it is _different_ and it tastes great. I'd never pick a bottle based purely on the age, but there are differences and I personally tend to gravitate to the 18+ ages when I'm picking my single-malts.

Hannan 8y ago

>> Oh, and curse you Americans for your ludicrous booze prices. A bottle of Lagavulin 16 here is $75. I'll readily admit the heavier cost is easier to swallow given our petrol and electricity prices. edit: petrol instead of gas

logfromblammo 8y ago
It doesn't even help to live near the brewery. I drive through Tennessee and Kentucky frequently, and bourbon is more expensive than gasoline. The price is mostly taxes, regulatory compliance, trademark, and water rights. If you're willing to scoff at the law, you can get something that tastes similar to a well-aged bourbon from an unlicensed distiller at a very low (relative) price, and any time you might have to wait for it is mostly because their trustworthy high-volume purchasers can jump ahead of you in line at any time. The moonshiners use tricks to flavor their product that are prohibited by law to anyone that wants to sell "bourbon" or "Tennessee whiskey", but since they're already outlaw, it doesn't cost them anything extra to put charred wood splints in a vat instead of using whole wood barrels, and forcibly cycle temperature and pressure to simulate the barrel-aging processes. This area is just swimming in cheap grains, especially feed corn (aka maize), soft red winter wheat, barley, rice, rye, and sorghum. You can make beer out of any of it, and distill any beer into hard liquor. If you strip it down to pure azeotropic grain alcohol, you can dilute it back to 80 proof and add whatever flavors you want. Some of the old-school outlaws have "gone legit" and sell their stuff (largely outsourced to one big industrial distillery, with one tiny local distillery kept mostly for show) as "flavored vodka" now. But that's just as expensive as anything else, because now they pay their taxes and comply with the laws and regulations. It really is ludicrous. It is so cheap to make liquor here.
- DennisP 8y ago
  I don't doubt there's plenty of illegal stuff but it's not illegal to sell whiskey like that, as long as you don't call it bourbon. Calling it whiskey is fine (though I don't know if there's a law on "Tennessee whiskey"). Legitimate craft distillers make all sorts of weird whiskeys.