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I also had trouble following the author's point. It appears the author is saying that since people don't change their mind as often as the author would like, th
by tunesmith 8y ago
I also had trouble following the author's point. It appears the author is saying that since people don't change their mind as often as the author would like, then it means that reason doesn't matter. (That's probably a wrong or (unintentional) straw-man summation.)
The weird part is that the author seems to take pains to draw a distinction between reason and rhetoric, but it seems her general conclusions conflate the two. If I have a conclusion based on logic, and someone comes at me trying to convince me with rhetoric based on ethos or pathos, it's not going to be convincing to me no matter how many points it scores on the audience. But that doesn't mean logic won't change my mind.
And most conclusions along the lines the author describes are normative conclusions. If, through logical debate, it's discovered that both parties are reasoning correctly, basing their conclusions on different moral (axiomatic) values, and neither has changed their mind, that is perfectly okay and should be considered a victory for responsible dialectic. Dialectic is about finding shared understanding and unsound reasoning, not about humiliating your opponent for having different values than you.
I haven't taken a close look at Kialo but if, for all their structure, there isn't much effort spent on the logical relations between statements, then... well, it might still be helpful to a degree, but I can also see it inviting a lot casuistry.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- horseLOGIC 8y agoIt is a questioning of the merit of debate versus just plain virtue signaling. The last sentence summarizes it pretty well: "The idea of “debate” imposes an adversarial framework on online interactions, as well as privileging logic as a tool of discovery." >> It appears the author is saying that since people don't change their mind as often as the author would like, then it means that reason doesn't matter. It's more that if you want to effect positive change (like "ending slavery"), reason doesn't get you far. To the contrary, a very reasonable argument could be made to non-slaves on why freeing the slaves would be a mortal risk to them. Changing "morals" on the other hand, is effective, because morals transcend reason. This is the playbook of the left.
- sanxiyn 8y agoAgreed. The author says debate privileges logic as a tool of discovery, as if it is a bad thing! What does the author propose to privilege as a tool of discovery instead? "moral honor"? Really, LOL.