4 ms·

Learned helplessness

63 points by georgecmu 16y ago

fhe 16y ago
The psychologist who discovered this, Seligman, had since turned to studying the opposite: the psychology of happiness. Check out his TED talk, where he talks about his new research: http://www.ted.com/speakers/martin_seligman.html http://www.ted.com/speakers/martin_seligman.html In summary, according to Seligman, the three levels of a happy life (in order of short to long-lasting): 1. pleasure (physical comfort, great food, etc.) 2. engagement (loving what you're doing, e.g. getting into flow state while coding) 3. meaning (be part of something larger than yourself, e.g. Mother Teresa, Gandhi) Of note is that, in Seligman's original experiment, a percentage of the dogs never gave up, i.e. never learned that they were helpless. they kept on trying despite their efforts never paying off. when they were put in an environment where they actually had control, they quickly took charge of their own lives (at least in terms of avoid electric shocks) -- a heart-warming story to entrepreneurs.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  > they quickly took charge of their own lives (at least in terms of avoid electric shocks) -- a heart-warming story to entrepreneurs. I don't know that anything in or about that study could be described as "heart-warming", but ok
AndyKelley 16y ago
wikipedia says 'People with pessimistic explanatory style—which sees negative events as permanent ("it will never change"), personal ("it's my fault"), and pervasive ("I can't do anything correctly")—are most likely to suffer from learned helplessness and depression.' It seems to me that if you tended to believe "it's my fault" then you would have the opposite result - empowerment. When you admit that something is your fault, you now are responsible for overcoming/solving/fixing it, which is the opposite of helplessness.
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  Not if it is combined with the other two (permanent and pervasive.) The idea is that if something is your fault, and cannot be changed, and in fact everything is your fault, then the conclusion is that you are hopelessly defective, and there is nothing to be done: learned helplessness.
  - chc 16y ago
    I know a woman who was telling me about a cause she thought somebody should take up. I told her nobody else seemed to be interested in getting the ball rolling, so she should lead the charge. She looked like I'd suggested bending spoons with her mind. "A person like me can't do that," she explained. She didn't mean that it would be too draining or impractical for somebody in her situation. She just wasn't capable — it was an a priori fact.
- nerfhammer 16y ago
  IIRC that happier people tend to (unrealistically) personalize successes and externalize failures. I.e. if it worked it was because I did it, if it didn't work then everything else conspired against it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
Debugreality 16y ago
Helicopter parenting and teacher/student learning as compared to self directed learning strike me as two current trends that may lead to learned helplessness in our society. So many people in my life need constant encouragement to help overcome learned apathy. I'm not really sure what the main cause is but they seem to be likely candidates.
- billswift 16y ago
  The big difference between thirty years ago when I was a teen and now is the growth of organized extra-curricular activities. Children and teens have even fewer opportunities to decide and plan their own course than we used to. And you can't learn what you can't practice.
herrherr 16y ago
But how can you help people to get out of this 'learned helplessness'?
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  Learned Optimism. Seriously. Seligman wrote a great book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0671019112 http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0...
  - billswift 16y ago
    I started reading this back when it was new, but quit fairly early on, when the author wrote that pessimists had a much more accurate view of reality than optimists. I wrote a post in March of last year, Optimism - Dangers and Benefits, http://williambswift.blogspot.com/2009/03/optimism-is-not-necessarily-as.html http://williambswift.blogspot.com/2009/03/optimism-is-not-ne...

63 points by georgecmu 16y ago

fhe 16y ago

The psychologist who discovered this, Seligman, had since turned to studying the opposite: the psychology of happiness. Check out his TED talk, where he talks about his new research: http://www.ted.com/speakers/martin_seligman.html http://www.ted.com/speakers/martin_seligman.html In summary, according to Seligman, the three levels of a happy life (in order of short to long-lasting): 1. pleasure (physical comfort, great food, etc.) 2. engagement (loving what you're doing, e.g. getting into flow state while coding) 3. meaning (be part of something larger than yourself, e.g. Mother Teresa, Gandhi) Of note is that, in Seligman's original experiment, a percentage of the dogs never gave up, i.e. never learned that they were helpless. they kept on trying despite their efforts never paying off. when they were put in an environment where they actually had control, they quickly took charge of their own lives (at least in terms of avoid electric shocks) -- a heart-warming story to entrepreneurs.

sliverstorm 16y ago
> they quickly took charge of their own lives (at least in terms of avoid electric shocks) -- a heart-warming story to entrepreneurs. I don't know that anything in or about that study could be described as "heart-warming", but ok

AndyKelley 16y ago

wikipedia says 'People with pessimistic explanatory style—which sees negative events as permanent ("it will never change"), personal ("it's my fault"), and pervasive ("I can't do anything correctly")—are most likely to suffer from learned helplessness and depression.' It seems to me that if you tended to believe "it's my fault" then you would have the opposite result - empowerment. When you admit that something is your fault, you now are responsible for overcoming/solving/fixing it, which is the opposite of helplessness.

michael_dorfman 16y ago
Not if it is combined with the other two (permanent and pervasive.) The idea is that if something is your fault, and cannot be changed, and in fact everything is your fault, then the conclusion is that you are hopelessly defective, and there is nothing to be done: learned helplessness.
- chc 16y ago
  I know a woman who was telling me about a cause she thought somebody should take up. I told her nobody else seemed to be interested in getting the ball rolling, so she should lead the charge. She looked like I'd suggested bending spoons with her mind. "A person like me can't do that," she explained. She didn't mean that it would be too draining or impractical for somebody in her situation. She just wasn't capable — it was an a priori fact.
nerfhammer 16y ago
IIRC that happier people tend to (unrealistically) personalize successes and externalize failures. I.e. if it worked it was because I did it, if it didn't work then everything else conspired against it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

Debugreality 16y ago

Helicopter parenting and teacher/student learning as compared to self directed learning strike me as two current trends that may lead to learned helplessness in our society. So many people in my life need constant encouragement to help overcome learned apathy. I'm not really sure what the main cause is but they seem to be likely candidates.

billswift 16y ago
The big difference between thirty years ago when I was a teen and now is the growth of organized extra-curricular activities. Children and teens have even fewer opportunities to decide and plan their own course than we used to. And you can't learn what you can't practice.

herrherr 16y ago

But how can you help people to get out of this 'learned helplessness'?

michael_dorfman 16y ago
Learned Optimism. Seriously. Seligman wrote a great book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0671019112 http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0...
- billswift 16y ago
  I started reading this back when it was new, but quit fairly early on, when the author wrote that pessimists had a much more accurate view of reality than optimists. I wrote a post in March of last year, Optimism - Dangers and Benefits, http://williambswift.blogspot.com/2009/03/optimism-is-not-necessarily-as.html http://williambswift.blogspot.com/2009/03/optimism-is-not-ne...