4 ms·

I don't think it's social circles (although, that might be a by-product), rather parkinson's law kicking in at all levels. The people I know making $70k don't

I don't think it's social circles (although, that might be a by-product), rather parkinson's law kicking in at all levels. The people I know making $70k don't feel rich–but that might be because they are married with kids. If the people you know are single, I could see how that would be different. It's weird–I'm half-way between 70k and 300k now and I feel above middle-class but definitely not rich. We live modestly but have 4 kids and travel a lot.

_delirium 16y ago
Yeah, I do know mostly single people making $70k. Some have families, but I can mostly think of reasons why it makes sense to me that they'd still feel well-off. A few live in generally poorer areas; e.g. someone making $70k in Fresno or Fort Wayne is doing well by local standards, and even though they have families to support, they're surrounded by other people who also have families to support who make closer to $50k. A bunch of the rest are immigrants, whose norms are calibrated by a lingering sense that the U.S. is absurdly rich any way you slice it, and that their lifestyle is quite nice compared to family back home. An interesting case are the locals here in Santa Cruz who don't work over the hill in Silicon Valley. There aren't that many good local jobs, and my sense is that the people who make $70k whose social circle is mostly other non-commuting locals feel well off, despite the fact that it's a pretty high-cost-of-living area--- because they know lots of surf bums, coffee shop employees, and people who have to commute from Watsonville because they can't afford to live in Santa Cruz or Capitola.
enjo 16y ago
Just curious: Define "modestly". Do you own your house? Is it a big house? Is it a nice area? I'm always fascinated by the varying definitions of living modestly. I don't mean that as an attack on you in any way. I find that people definitions really do differ quite a bit. What's yours?
- callmeed 16y ago
  No. No. Sorta. (crappy neighborhood in a nice general region (CA central coast)) Then again, we're only staying here for 6 months. Wife and I both have used cars ('o6 & '04) that we bought cash. Home furnishings are all used/cheap as we've learned our children tend to destroy things. We don't buy many "nice/expensive" things other than my camera gear and my wife's shoes/clothes.
ajdecon 16y ago
Just to point out: by the definition of a lot of Americans, "travel a lot" is part of the definition of "rich". And it's a big part: most people can't really afford to travel at all. And for some people, "4 kids" is also part of that definition--especially if you treat them right. If you send them to private school, that's certainly the case. (Personal anecdote which is not data: a lot of my family are autoworkers, and if you asked them they'd say they're doing pretty good, definitely middle class. One of my aunts on that side just got on an airplane for the first time in her life last year, because it was the first time she could afford the price of the ticket.) This post is not meant to be snarky or insulting at all. But you are in the top few percent of the income distribution, and you don't feel rich because the things you spend the money on are things you think you should have. And you might be right! Because I think a life which involves family and travel would be a good thing, and that everyone should have that. But that doesn't mean most people can have it, or that those who can afford these things aren't rich.
- callmeed 16y ago
  "This post is not meant to be snarky or insulting at all. But you are in the top few percent of the income distribution, and you don't feel rich because the things you spend the money on are things you think you should have. And you might be right! " Don't worry, I'm not insulted/offended at all. I'm fully aware that I'm in the top few percent of incomes. And I should have qualified that–while I don't feel rich, I do consider myself extremely blessed (fortunate if you will). I should also add that I currently have no desire to become more rich (not that I don't want to succeed in business). I'm terrible at managing our money/budget at this level, so I see know need to add to it.

_delirium 16y ago

Yeah, I do know mostly single people making $70k. Some have families, but I can mostly think of reasons why it makes sense to me that they'd still feel well-off. A few live in generally poorer areas; e.g. someone making $70k in Fresno or Fort Wayne is doing well by local standards, and even though they have families to support, they're surrounded by other people who also have families to support who make closer to $50k. A bunch of the rest are immigrants, whose norms are calibrated by a lingering sense that the U.S. is absurdly rich any way you slice it, and that their lifestyle is quite nice compared to family back home. An interesting case are the locals here in Santa Cruz who don't work over the hill in Silicon Valley. There aren't that many good local jobs, and my sense is that the people who make $70k whose social circle is mostly other non-commuting locals feel well off, despite the fact that it's a pretty high-cost-of-living area--- because they know lots of surf bums, coffee shop employees, and people who have to commute from Watsonville because they can't afford to live in Santa Cruz or Capitola.

enjo 16y ago

Just curious: Define "modestly". Do you own your house? Is it a big house? Is it a nice area? I'm always fascinated by the varying definitions of living modestly. I don't mean that as an attack on you in any way. I find that people definitions really do differ quite a bit. What's yours?

callmeed 16y ago
No. No. Sorta. (crappy neighborhood in a nice general region (CA central coast)) Then again, we're only staying here for 6 months. Wife and I both have used cars ('o6 & '04) that we bought cash. Home furnishings are all used/cheap as we've learned our children tend to destroy things. We don't buy many "nice/expensive" things other than my camera gear and my wife's shoes/clothes.

ajdecon 16y ago

Just to point out: by the definition of a lot of Americans, "travel a lot" is part of the definition of "rich". And it's a big part: most people can't really afford to travel at all. And for some people, "4 kids" is also part of that definition--especially if you treat them right. If you send them to private school, that's certainly the case. (Personal anecdote which is not data: a lot of my family are autoworkers, and if you asked them they'd say they're doing pretty good, definitely middle class. One of my aunts on that side just got on an airplane for the first time in her life last year, because it was the first time she could afford the price of the ticket.) This post is not meant to be snarky or insulting at all. But you are in the top few percent of the income distribution, and you don't feel rich because the things you spend the money on are things you think you should have. And you might be right! Because I think a life which involves family and travel would be a good thing, and that everyone should have that. But that doesn't mean most people can have it, or that those who can afford these things aren't rich.

callmeed 16y ago
"This post is not meant to be snarky or insulting at all. But you are in the top few percent of the income distribution, and you don't feel rich because the things you spend the money on are things you think you should have. And you might be right! " Don't worry, I'm not insulted/offended at all. I'm fully aware that I'm in the top few percent of incomes. And I should have qualified that–while I don't feel rich, I do consider myself extremely blessed (fortunate if you will). I should also add that I currently have no desire to become more rich (not that I don't want to succeed in business). I'm terrible at managing our money/budget at this level, so I see know need to add to it.