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> – and have triggered the biggest split in the wine world for a generation Interesting. I don't care to go into the reasons but I am pretty exposed to profess

> – and have triggered the biggest split in the wine world for a generation Interesting. I don't care to go into the reasons but I am pretty exposed to professionals in the wine trade, and I have not heard much about this beyond the two articles on Hacker News. I don't think the industry is paying much attention at all. I think it is a bit like I have seen numerous hipster-ethical-organic coffee-shops come and go in my town, but Starbucks just keeps on opening new stores.

Kalium 9y ago
I've seen a handful of hipster-ethical-natural wine shops pop up around the SF Bay. The wine doesn't seem to be inherently better, but it does seem to start at $12 a glass.
- sincerely 9y ago
  Are you being purposefully dense? The reason "ethical" or "natural" wine would be more expensive isn't because it would taste better , but because it costs more to produce (or present, in the case of "hipster") in a specific way that's appealing to the consumer.
  - Kalium 9y ago
    Oh, you're absolutely right! Of course more ethical or natural wine costs more to produce and present appealingly. You're absolutely, completely, 100% correct on every point. I might be a bit skeptical that it costs $3-4 a glass more, however. I wonder if it's not at least somewhat about having an aspirational label that can be applied to justify a significant upcharge.
    - sincerely 9y ago
      Oh, I think I agree with you then, they're probably milking the label for all it's worth :P
    - dx034 9y ago
      Not sure about wine but in other areas, organic agriculture can halve the yield (more for meat). Could imagine the same for grapes. That plus more expensive handling after harvest (often simple due to lower scale) can easily triple the price.
lmm 9y ago
I've seen the opposite thing in the trendy part of town - more and more hip coffee shops whereas Starbucks has stopped growing. Of course they're a bigger business and always will be, but the hip coffee shops are leading with the trendy people and setting a direction that Starbucks is picking up (e.g. offering particular roasts of the week, and cold brew).

Kalium 9y ago

I've seen a handful of hipster-ethical-natural wine shops pop up around the SF Bay. The wine doesn't seem to be inherently better, but it does seem to start at $12 a glass.

sincerely 9y ago
Are you being purposefully dense? The reason "ethical" or "natural" wine would be more expensive isn't because it would taste better , but because it costs more to produce (or present, in the case of "hipster") in a specific way that's appealing to the consumer.
- Kalium 9y ago
  Oh, you're absolutely right! Of course more ethical or natural wine costs more to produce and present appealingly. You're absolutely, completely, 100% correct on every point. I might be a bit skeptical that it costs $3-4 a glass more, however. I wonder if it's not at least somewhat about having an aspirational label that can be applied to justify a significant upcharge.
  - sincerely 9y ago
    Oh, I think I agree with you then, they're probably milking the label for all it's worth :P
  - dx034 9y ago
    Not sure about wine but in other areas, organic agriculture can halve the yield (more for meat). Could imagine the same for grapes. That plus more expensive handling after harvest (often simple due to lower scale) can easily triple the price.

lmm 9y ago

I've seen the opposite thing in the trendy part of town - more and more hip coffee shops whereas Starbucks has stopped growing. Of course they're a bigger business and always will be, but the hip coffee shops are leading with the trendy people and setting a direction that Starbucks is picking up (e.g. offering particular roasts of the week, and cold brew).