4 ms·

25 years ago Wired (which at that point was a pretty good magazine) published Michael Crichton's speech on the future of newspapers, Mediasaurus: https://www.w

25 years ago Wired (which at that point was a pretty good magazine) published Michael Crichton's speech on the future of newspapers, Mediasaurus: https://www.wired.com/1993/04/mediasaurus/ https://www.wired.com/1993/04/mediasaurus/ And it seems like not much has changed... Concerning the Denver Post, I realized long ago that the function of the local newspaper was selling ads, and only looking at approved scandals. There was plenty of fraud going on in the site choosing, site bidding and construction of the new Denver International Airport ; and the Denver Post never investigated any of it. Some improbably large amount of concrete was paid for during the construction of the airport, and I don't think that it was because of the alien underground base... a simpler and more logical explanation for this has to do with large bags of cash... EDIT: Note that the best journalism you can find on it, was done by Westword, which used to have escort/gay/gentlemen's club ads in the back and was given away free (they now are making $$$ because all the ad space is bought by marijuana advertisers). http://www.westword.com/news/speak-no-evil-5056426 http://www.westword.com/news/speak-no-evil-5056426

jessaustin 8y ago
Wow the rabbit hole goes pretty deep there. Update on the execrable Zinser, who fired Deans [0]. One has to assume that for every case like this that comes to light, many other cases do not... [0] https://votesmart.org/public-statement/962803/misconduct-of-inspector-general-todd-zinser-commerce-department https://votesmart.org/public-statement/962803/misconduct-of-...
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  Thank you very much for that link! Zinser should have lost his pension...
dredmorbius 8y ago
Or Hamilton Holt, 1909. [T]his is the explanation of the condition that confronts most publications to-day. By throwing the preponderating weight of commercialism into the scales of production, advertising is at the present moment by far the greatest menace to the disinterested practice of a profession upon which the diffusion of intelligence most largely depends. If journalism is no longer a profession, but a commercial enterprise, it is due to the growth of advertising, and nothing else. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft
- intended 8y ago
  Essentially advertising has become a threat to the old models of how ideas and the market place of ideas are supposed to work. Advertising subsidized many functions, and then it became the purpose of those functions. Ads are the threat.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    How old is "the marketplace of ideas", exactly?
    - intended 8y ago
      Forever? The modern form in my opinion, is an enlightenment era creation.
      - dredmorbius 8y ago
        https://www.jstor.org/stable/23559183 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23559183 https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/dlj/vol33/iss1/1/ https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/dlj/vol33/iss1/1/
        intended 8y ago
        Can’t read the jstor art but the duke art is in line with what I have said.
- icebraining 8y ago
  That's interesting, that quote implies there a time when newspapers existed without ads, but was there?
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    That's a question complicated by context, and that context is complicated by printing technologies, costs and economics, literacy rates, general industry and manufacturing, and the general need for such advertising. Short answer: yes, there was, or rather, the advertising which was carried was of a very different form. Much closer to classifieds than display ads, and often for sale of land, businesses, or other valuable but one-off property. The bulk of revenue came from subscriptions. As Holt notes, sale of bulk-produced goods dates to about the mid-19th century, at least in the US (it's slightly eaarlier in Britain) with the introduction of mass-produced goods in quantities greater than could be sold in any one local market, and the transport systems (canals, later railroads) to disstribute them. Amongst the first adverts were patent medicines, the viagra spam of the day. Consider too that literacy was limited, about 25% in England as of 1800, an as low as 5-10% in rural areas or less-developed countries. The primary driver of improved literacy was itself industrialisation and factory work. Some proficiency with basic reading, writing, and arithmetic, if not deep logical or philosophical thought, was required. (A conflict which has dominated public education debate, policy, and battles ever since.) Press speeds, paper costs, and issue sizes also evolved tremendously through the 19th century. A wooden "wine press" could produce perhaps 120 impressions per hour with a skilled press team, priinting one side at a time, and requiring a day between sides. The result was a four-page folded broadsheet. By 1900, electric-powered, steel-framed, rotary web, offset prosses cranked one million impressions per hour and could produce, if memory serves, a 12-page publication (three sheets, double-sided, folded), linotype-set, but without photographic halftones (that process arrived in the aughts or 1910s). Pulp paper (and the lumber necessary for it) arrived in the 1830s. Petroleum-based inks would have followed petroleum, found in bulk in 1859 (Drake's well, Titusville, Pennsylvania). Prior to all of this, newspapers were small in size, usually weekly, limited-circulation, catering mostly to business owners, and expensive. Another form emerged in the late 18th and through the 19th and early 20th centuries of party papers, specifically dedicated to a particular political party, still indicated in names such as the Arizona Republic, originally Republican. This formula started changing with Benjamin Day's New York Sun, a cheap (1 cent vs. 5), popular, advertising-driven, and sensationalist publication founded in 1833. There's a large literature on these subjects, addressing many elements, from technical to social, economic, political, cultural, and more. I've mentioned Robert W. McChesney among the media theory witers. Tim Wu, The Attention Merchants, addresses some of this. I've compiled a "light" bibliography: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...
Shivetya 8y ago
in many areas of the country the only investigative reporting is done by local news stations. they at least have to compete against another to retain viewers. in my own city the paper got better with closer ties to one of the stations but they are more blinded by PC issues than money. Most of that because an election needed to be guaranteed at the city level

jessaustin 8y ago

Wow the rabbit hole goes pretty deep there. Update on the execrable Zinser, who fired Deans [0]. One has to assume that for every case like this that comes to light, many other cases do not... [0] https://votesmart.org/public-statement/962803/misconduct-of-inspector-general-todd-zinser-commerce-department https://votesmart.org/public-statement/962803/misconduct-of-...

patrickg_zill 8y ago
Thank you very much for that link! Zinser should have lost his pension...

dredmorbius 8y ago

Or Hamilton Holt, 1909. [T]his is the explanation of the condition that confronts most publications to-day. By throwing the preponderating weight of commercialism into the scales of production, advertising is at the present moment by far the greatest menace to the disinterested practice of a profession upon which the diffusion of intelligence most largely depends. If journalism is no longer a profession, but a commercial enterprise, it is due to the growth of advertising, and nothing else. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft

intended 8y ago
Essentially advertising has become a threat to the old models of how ideas and the market place of ideas are supposed to work. Advertising subsidized many functions, and then it became the purpose of those functions. Ads are the threat.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  How old is "the marketplace of ideas", exactly?
  - intended 8y ago
    Forever? The modern form in my opinion, is an enlightenment era creation.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      https://www.jstor.org/stable/23559183 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23559183 https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/dlj/vol33/iss1/1/ https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/dlj/vol33/iss1/1/
      - intended 8y ago
        Can’t read the jstor art but the duke art is in line with what I have said.
icebraining 8y ago
That's interesting, that quote implies there a time when newspapers existed without ads, but was there?
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  That's a question complicated by context, and that context is complicated by printing technologies, costs and economics, literacy rates, general industry and manufacturing, and the general need for such advertising. Short answer: yes, there was, or rather, the advertising which was carried was of a very different form. Much closer to classifieds than display ads, and often for sale of land, businesses, or other valuable but one-off property. The bulk of revenue came from subscriptions. As Holt notes, sale of bulk-produced goods dates to about the mid-19th century, at least in the US (it's slightly eaarlier in Britain) with the introduction of mass-produced goods in quantities greater than could be sold in any one local market, and the transport systems (canals, later railroads) to disstribute them. Amongst the first adverts were patent medicines, the viagra spam of the day. Consider too that literacy was limited, about 25% in England as of 1800, an as low as 5-10% in rural areas or less-developed countries. The primary driver of improved literacy was itself industrialisation and factory work. Some proficiency with basic reading, writing, and arithmetic, if not deep logical or philosophical thought, was required. (A conflict which has dominated public education debate, policy, and battles ever since.) Press speeds, paper costs, and issue sizes also evolved tremendously through the 19th century. A wooden "wine press" could produce perhaps 120 impressions per hour with a skilled press team, priinting one side at a time, and requiring a day between sides. The result was a four-page folded broadsheet. By 1900, electric-powered, steel-framed, rotary web, offset prosses cranked one million impressions per hour and could produce, if memory serves, a 12-page publication (three sheets, double-sided, folded), linotype-set, but without photographic halftones (that process arrived in the aughts or 1910s). Pulp paper (and the lumber necessary for it) arrived in the 1830s. Petroleum-based inks would have followed petroleum, found in bulk in 1859 (Drake's well, Titusville, Pennsylvania). Prior to all of this, newspapers were small in size, usually weekly, limited-circulation, catering mostly to business owners, and expensive. Another form emerged in the late 18th and through the 19th and early 20th centuries of party papers, specifically dedicated to a particular political party, still indicated in names such as the Arizona Republic, originally Republican. This formula started changing with Benjamin Day's New York Sun, a cheap (1 cent vs. 5), popular, advertising-driven, and sensationalist publication founded in 1833. There's a large literature on these subjects, addressing many elements, from technical to social, economic, political, cultural, and more. I've mentioned Robert W. McChesney among the media theory witers. Tim Wu, The Attention Merchants, addresses some of this. I've compiled a "light" bibliography: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...

Shivetya 8y ago

in many areas of the country the only investigative reporting is done by local news stations. they at least have to compete against another to retain viewers. in my own city the paper got better with closer ties to one of the stations but they are more blinded by PC issues than money. Most of that because an election needed to be guaranteed at the city level