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I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. Or a department store that produces it's own bespoke cash registers. You can't argue that ty

I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. Or a department store that produces it's own bespoke cash registers. You can't argue that typography is so vital to their business that this is a useful allocation of resources. Obviously, design is important to any company that markets itself in some way. But not every company designs their own typeface (although it seems like it, lately.) Some are saying it's important for AirBnB to have their own distinct look, and that requires a custom typeface. BS. Plenty of successful companies managed to create a distinct brand identity using helvetica. https://99designs.com/blog/creative-inspiration/famous-logos-made-with-helvetica/ https://99designs.com/blog/creative-inspiration/famous-logos... Some are saying it's cheaper to make your own typeface than to license one. Really? There are no cheaper typefaces that look suitable? (I'm not saying this is impossible. I'm genuinely curious. Is that how bad it is?) We have open source typography. Are none of those fonts suitable for their purpose? Can any of them be improved by the designers at AirBnB? That sounds like it would be cheaper than starting from scratch. I care about beautiful typography as much as the next web designer / marketer / start up-whatever. But I also know how a business runs. And this seems like something the business should not focus on. Tell me I'm wrong.

ryanmarsh 8y ago
I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. Or a department store that produces it's own bespoke cash registers. Especially considering their customer service and product quality (read: host integrity) issues.
brailsafe 8y ago
You're wrong, and I don't get the impression that you care as much about beautiful typography as much as the next web designer / marketer / start up-whatever. Design is about solving problems. I'd offer up the analogy of Starbucks where I happen to be sitting and working. They create much of their own everything as part of creating a consistent environment for an innumerable amount of possible circumstances in which their stores need to be successful. If it's not bespoke, it's selected which is perfectly fine to do. Sometimes that doesn't work, sometimes it does. Sometimes you want that as your constraint so the object you're making is more easily repairable with commodity parts. Sometimes you're in the market of building the most popular gadgets in the world and you're the only one maintaining them.
asfasgasg 8y ago
I'd actually be moderately surprised if there were no extant hotel companies that have commissioned a typeface. They might not have bragged about it, and you might not have heard about it, but it's not like it's an unthinkable thing to do.
- brailsafe 8y ago
  Hilton's: https://befonts.com/hilton-typeface.html https://befonts.com/hilton-typeface.html
  - baal232 8y ago
    It doesn't say anywhere on the page that Hilton commissioned that typeface. Could just be named Hilton. Can't find a source anywhere else, either. Can you provide a source that Hilton commissioned it?
    - brailsafe 8y ago
      My mistake. I confused it with "SimpleJoys" which they're using all over their website. SimpleJoys oddly enough can only be downloaded from the official Hilton Dropbox account. Edit: In a bit of an ancillary note, it looks like they are serving the font directly from their wp-content folder as a static asset. This might indicate that they either came to own it or commissioned it. http://resorts.hiltonbusinessonline.com/wp-content/themes/hilton-resorts/css/fonts/simple-joys/simple-joys-webfont.woff http://resorts.hiltonbusinessonline.com/wp-content/themes/hi...
haberman 8y ago
Why do you presume to say what AirBnB "should not" do? You get to run your business according to your priorities, as does AirBnB's CEO. > Plenty of successful companies managed to create a distinct brand identity using helvetica. You could use this logic to criticize basically any company expenditure as frivolous. Plenty of companies do things that probably aren't strictly necessary for their survival. I for one am grateful to live in a world where companies sometimes do interesting and creative things, even if it isn't an obvious and immediate win on the balance sheet.
- baal232 8y ago
  > Why do you presume to say what AirBnB "should not" do? You get to run your business according to your priorities, as does AirBnB's CEO. If we followed your reasoning, most CEOs would be immune from criticism. I, on the other hand, have a different rule of thumb. If a company does something in public, it's fair game for the public to talk about it. >You could use this logic to criticize basically any company expenditure as frivolous. I hope not! That's not my intention. I'm just refuting the idea that branding requires a unique typeface. The reason this is frivolous is because the company's core business is in writing the app and matching vacationers with short term rentals. Designing a typeface seems unrelated to their core business, and is probably best left to someone else, while they focus on what they're good at.
  - squiggleblaz 8y ago
    Anything a company does, in private or in public, is legitimately subject to criticism.
  - briandear 8y ago
    Their core business is making two private parties feel good enough about each other in order to conducts a higher value transaction. Friendliness, trust, professionalism are all part of the image AirBnB wants to convey to guests and hosts. I would say that a font is extremely a part of their core business as anything that even slightly improves the feeling of confidence you want your customers to have when they book a room — improves conversations, perceived satisfaction and a whole host of other intangible, but still very real aspects of the AirBnB experience. Spend some time as an AirBnB host and you’ll quickly understand their core business is beyond just being a transaction engine but more around almost being a therapeutic interface between hosts and needy, insecure and hesitant guests. Remember also that AirBnB is growing rapidly — a large number of hosts and guest have never “done this sort of thing” before. So AirBnB’s design motifs have to be psychologically perfect to make those people, like your Aunt Edna, feel safe. For the average HN reader, certainly Menlo, Times New Roman or Comic Sans would be suitable. Design matters and it matters a hell of a lot when you are dealing with the “normal” public.
tomc1985 8y ago
This is as much about designers and egoists jerking themselves off in the service of a new 'corporate identity' as it is about a meaningful evolution in image.
- jrs95 8y ago
  Basically this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G5-A2dk71xQ/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G5-A2dk71xQ/maxresdefault.jpg
- phkahler 8y ago
  The recent HN links to articles on "bullshit jobs" come to mind.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Alex3917 8y ago
> I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. The key differentiator between AirBnB and a hotel is the community. By adopting a more flippant variation of the well-known humanist sans-serif fonts, they're communicating that their experience is more about the people and the connections than just the physical infrastructure of a boring old Helvetica hotel. Having their own typeface is good strategically because it helps to create a moat around the product experience. It's similar to how Wal-Mart created their own typeface to double down on their American-as-apple-pie branding. Now every time you drive past a Wal-Mart, the font tells that story before you even walk into the store.
- mannykannot 8y ago
  > Now every time you drive past a Wal-Mart, the font tells that story before you even walk into the store. If so for me, then it must be subliminal, as I had not even noticed the typeface. If the message is 'bland' and 'unexceptional', then at least I have not been subliminally misled.
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    Bland and unexceptional is the brand. Walmart isn’t trying to be fun or cool, they’re trying to signal “cheap stuff inside.” If bland and unexciting came to your mind, it’s working.
- jkFeiwi 8y ago
  Typography doesn't feel like a moat to me. If a competitor offered better service than AirBnB, nobody would stick around solely because of the typeface. Best you can say is, good design could contribute to a moat, and typography is one part of that. Also, Wal-Mart's logo is set in Myriad Bold. They made slight alterations to the W, A, and T characters.
jacobolus 8y ago
Having stayed in various hotels (including expensive ones) which used atrocious lightbulbs, I would’t mind if some of them decided to choose lightbulbs more carefully. Manufacturing might be a bit overboard, as that takes running a factory, but if a hotel wanted to partner with an existing lightbulb factory to commission lightbulbs matching the hotel’s spec, that might be a nice feature. In the case of lightbulbs, they could probably find something available off the shelf which matched whatever reasonable spec they might develop. But for a large hotel chain, ordering custom lightbulbs probably wouldn’t break the bank. * * * Helvetica is an awful typeface for anything but posters, logos, and headlines. Please never use Helvetica for body copy.
- baal232 8y ago
  Agreeed on Helvetica. I was just using it as an example of a typeface that's popular in branding despite it's ubiquity. But I'd never set body copy in helvetica. The letters are hard to distinguish at small sizes.
ggg9990 8y ago
What about a hotel making its own mattress? Westin did this with massive commercial success.

ryanmarsh 8y ago

I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. Or a department store that produces it's own bespoke cash registers. Especially considering their customer service and product quality (read: host integrity) issues.

brailsafe 8y ago

You're wrong, and I don't get the impression that you care as much about beautiful typography as much as the next web designer / marketer / start up-whatever. Design is about solving problems. I'd offer up the analogy of Starbucks where I happen to be sitting and working. They create much of their own everything as part of creating a consistent environment for an innumerable amount of possible circumstances in which their stores need to be successful. If it's not bespoke, it's selected which is perfectly fine to do. Sometimes that doesn't work, sometimes it does. Sometimes you want that as your constraint so the object you're making is more easily repairable with commodity parts. Sometimes you're in the market of building the most popular gadgets in the world and you're the only one maintaining them.

asfasgasg 8y ago

I'd actually be moderately surprised if there were no extant hotel companies that have commissioned a typeface. They might not have bragged about it, and you might not have heard about it, but it's not like it's an unthinkable thing to do.

brailsafe 8y ago
Hilton's: https://befonts.com/hilton-typeface.html https://befonts.com/hilton-typeface.html
- baal232 8y ago
  It doesn't say anywhere on the page that Hilton commissioned that typeface. Could just be named Hilton. Can't find a source anywhere else, either. Can you provide a source that Hilton commissioned it?
  - brailsafe 8y ago
    My mistake. I confused it with "SimpleJoys" which they're using all over their website. SimpleJoys oddly enough can only be downloaded from the official Hilton Dropbox account. Edit: In a bit of an ancillary note, it looks like they are serving the font directly from their wp-content folder as a static asset. This might indicate that they either came to own it or commissioned it. http://resorts.hiltonbusinessonline.com/wp-content/themes/hilton-resorts/css/fonts/simple-joys/simple-joys-webfont.woff http://resorts.hiltonbusinessonline.com/wp-content/themes/hi...

haberman 8y ago

Why do you presume to say what AirBnB "should not" do? You get to run your business according to your priorities, as does AirBnB's CEO. > Plenty of successful companies managed to create a distinct brand identity using helvetica. You could use this logic to criticize basically any company expenditure as frivolous. Plenty of companies do things that probably aren't strictly necessary for their survival. I for one am grateful to live in a world where companies sometimes do interesting and creative things, even if it isn't an obvious and immediate win on the balance sheet.

baal232 8y ago
> Why do you presume to say what AirBnB "should not" do? You get to run your business according to your priorities, as does AirBnB's CEO. If we followed your reasoning, most CEOs would be immune from criticism. I, on the other hand, have a different rule of thumb. If a company does something in public, it's fair game for the public to talk about it. >You could use this logic to criticize basically any company expenditure as frivolous. I hope not! That's not my intention. I'm just refuting the idea that branding requires a unique typeface. The reason this is frivolous is because the company's core business is in writing the app and matching vacationers with short term rentals. Designing a typeface seems unrelated to their core business, and is probably best left to someone else, while they focus on what they're good at.
- squiggleblaz 8y ago
  Anything a company does, in private or in public, is legitimately subject to criticism.
- briandear 8y ago
  Their core business is making two private parties feel good enough about each other in order to conducts a higher value transaction. Friendliness, trust, professionalism are all part of the image AirBnB wants to convey to guests and hosts. I would say that a font is extremely a part of their core business as anything that even slightly improves the feeling of confidence you want your customers to have when they book a room — improves conversations, perceived satisfaction and a whole host of other intangible, but still very real aspects of the AirBnB experience. Spend some time as an AirBnB host and you’ll quickly understand their core business is beyond just being a transaction engine but more around almost being a therapeutic interface between hosts and needy, insecure and hesitant guests. Remember also that AirBnB is growing rapidly — a large number of hosts and guest have never “done this sort of thing” before. So AirBnB’s design motifs have to be psychologically perfect to make those people, like your Aunt Edna, feel safe. For the average HN reader, certainly Menlo, Times New Roman or Comic Sans would be suitable. Design matters and it matters a hell of a lot when you are dealing with the “normal” public.

tomc1985 8y ago

This is as much about designers and egoists jerking themselves off in the service of a new 'corporate identity' as it is about a meaningful evolution in image.

jrs95 8y ago
Basically this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G5-A2dk71xQ/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G5-A2dk71xQ/maxresdefault.jpg
phkahler 8y ago
The recent HN links to articles on "bullshit jobs" come to mind.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Alex3917 8y ago

> I liken this to a hotel that decides to make their own lightbulbs. The key differentiator between AirBnB and a hotel is the community. By adopting a more flippant variation of the well-known humanist sans-serif fonts, they're communicating that their experience is more about the people and the connections than just the physical infrastructure of a boring old Helvetica hotel. Having their own typeface is good strategically because it helps to create a moat around the product experience. It's similar to how Wal-Mart created their own typeface to double down on their American-as-apple-pie branding. Now every time you drive past a Wal-Mart, the font tells that story before you even walk into the store.

mannykannot 8y ago
> Now every time you drive past a Wal-Mart, the font tells that story before you even walk into the store. If so for me, then it must be subliminal, as I had not even noticed the typeface. If the message is 'bland' and 'unexceptional', then at least I have not been subliminally misled.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Bland and unexceptional is the brand. Walmart isn’t trying to be fun or cool, they’re trying to signal “cheap stuff inside.” If bland and unexciting came to your mind, it’s working.
jkFeiwi 8y ago
Typography doesn't feel like a moat to me. If a competitor offered better service than AirBnB, nobody would stick around solely because of the typeface. Best you can say is, good design could contribute to a moat, and typography is one part of that. Also, Wal-Mart's logo is set in Myriad Bold. They made slight alterations to the W, A, and T characters.

jacobolus 8y ago

Having stayed in various hotels (including expensive ones) which used atrocious lightbulbs, I would’t mind if some of them decided to choose lightbulbs more carefully. Manufacturing might be a bit overboard, as that takes running a factory, but if a hotel wanted to partner with an existing lightbulb factory to commission lightbulbs matching the hotel’s spec, that might be a nice feature. In the case of lightbulbs, they could probably find something available off the shelf which matched whatever reasonable spec they might develop. But for a large hotel chain, ordering custom lightbulbs probably wouldn’t break the bank. * * * Helvetica is an awful typeface for anything but posters, logos, and headlines. Please never use Helvetica for body copy.

baal232 8y ago
Agreeed on Helvetica. I was just using it as an example of a typeface that's popular in branding despite it's ubiquity. But I'd never set body copy in helvetica. The letters are hard to distinguish at small sizes.

ggg9990 8y ago

What about a hotel making its own mattress? Westin did this with massive commercial success.