3 ms·

I read somewhere that essentially any wine that retails for less than $15-20 is generally the wine equivalent of fast food and industrially manufactured, wines

by cascom 8y ago

I read somewhere that essentially any wine that retails for less than $15-20 is generally the wine equivalent of fast food and industrially manufactured, wines from $20-$40 vary considerably in their process, and wines $40+ are generally made in ways that conform to ones "mental notions" of how wine is made... same article also said that at ~$100 there stops being any quality difference among wines and it is all taste/preference/supply & demand

jimnotgym 8y ago
In the UK a standard wine attracts duty of £2.17+20% vat (from memory). Then there is the vat on the price of the wine itself. Consider the cost of the bottle and shipping from France and you will see that the wine in a cheap say £6.99 bottle is worth less than 1 euro!!!! In a £12 bottle the wine itself could be worth 5 times as much! A classic fixed vs variable cost problem. Then take a £24 bottle, the wine itself is only around 2 times more expensive. So yes there can be a real sweet spot (in the UK £12-15). I don't know anything about US taxes to translate, but the point is still valid.
- cascom 8y ago
  See this article/thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17078319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17078319 Basically in the US a $100 wine in a restaurant retails for $50, Wholesales for $33, and the winery sells it for $19, and it costs them ~$14.25 to make it (all pre-sales tax)
  - dx034 8y ago
    Don't restaurants buy at wholesale or wineries directly?
    - cascom 8y ago
      Yes - restaurants typically buy at that $33 wholesale price - hence the rule of thumb is restaurant prices are 3x wholesale and 2x retail. Generally, I don’t believe restaurants can but direct from the winery as a result of absurdly complex tiered distribution laws
- realusername 8y ago
  Yes, that's why I'll pay around 5/6 euros for a drinkable bottle in France but I advise not going below 9 pounds in the UK, otherwise the quality might be hazardous.
- dx034 8y ago
  If you drink a lot of wine, drive to France/Germany and buy it there. A £6 bottle in the UK can cost as little as €3 on the continent and while the UK is in the EU there aren't really any restrictions as long as you only buy for yourself.
dx034 8y ago
That depends. A friend of mine works at a winery and they sometimes make deals with large supermarket chains to buy a substantial amount of the harvest at a low price. Gives them a predictable income with no marketing costs attached since supermarkets will commit to buy any amount they want at a fixed price months ahead. The supermarkets sell under a different label (they wouldn't even tell me which one) but it's the same wine at 30-50% the price. Supermarkets are incredibly efficient in logistics and selling and sell the wine at very little above the price they bought it for whereas local stores/vineyards will often have to sell at 100% mark-up. So just because a wine is cheap doesn't mean it's bad. There are a few supermarket wines I found (in Europe, esp at Aldi/Lidl) that were incredible good for the price. In countries with low alcohol taxes (e.g. Germany), you can sometimes get a very good wine for as little as €3/$3.50 a bottle. It's rare, though, since they often sell out quickly once word spreads that this is a decent wine.
- nasredin 8y ago
  E.g. Three - formerly Two - Buck Chuck, in Trader Joes in USA.

by cascom 8y ago

jimnotgym 8y ago

In the UK a standard wine attracts duty of £2.17+20% vat (from memory). Then there is the vat on the price of the wine itself. Consider the cost of the bottle and shipping from France and you will see that the wine in a cheap say £6.99 bottle is worth less than 1 euro!!!! In a £12 bottle the wine itself could be worth 5 times as much! A classic fixed vs variable cost problem. Then take a £24 bottle, the wine itself is only around 2 times more expensive. So yes there can be a real sweet spot (in the UK £12-15). I don't know anything about US taxes to translate, but the point is still valid.

cascom 8y ago
See this article/thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17078319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17078319 Basically in the US a $100 wine in a restaurant retails for $50, Wholesales for $33, and the winery sells it for $19, and it costs them ~$14.25 to make it (all pre-sales tax)
- dx034 8y ago
  Don't restaurants buy at wholesale or wineries directly?
  - cascom 8y ago
    Yes - restaurants typically buy at that $33 wholesale price - hence the rule of thumb is restaurant prices are 3x wholesale and 2x retail. Generally, I don’t believe restaurants can but direct from the winery as a result of absurdly complex tiered distribution laws
realusername 8y ago
Yes, that's why I'll pay around 5/6 euros for a drinkable bottle in France but I advise not going below 9 pounds in the UK, otherwise the quality might be hazardous.
dx034 8y ago
If you drink a lot of wine, drive to France/Germany and buy it there. A £6 bottle in the UK can cost as little as €3 on the continent and while the UK is in the EU there aren't really any restrictions as long as you only buy for yourself.

dx034 8y ago

That depends. A friend of mine works at a winery and they sometimes make deals with large supermarket chains to buy a substantial amount of the harvest at a low price. Gives them a predictable income with no marketing costs attached since supermarkets will commit to buy any amount they want at a fixed price months ahead. The supermarkets sell under a different label (they wouldn't even tell me which one) but it's the same wine at 30-50% the price. Supermarkets are incredibly efficient in logistics and selling and sell the wine at very little above the price they bought it for whereas local stores/vineyards will often have to sell at 100% mark-up. So just because a wine is cheap doesn't mean it's bad. There are a few supermarket wines I found (in Europe, esp at Aldi/Lidl) that were incredible good for the price. In countries with low alcohol taxes (e.g. Germany), you can sometimes get a very good wine for as little as €3/$3.50 a bottle. It's rare, though, since they often sell out quickly once word spreads that this is a decent wine.

nasredin 8y ago
E.g. Three - formerly Two - Buck Chuck, in Trader Joes in USA.