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> runs contrary to Google's ethos -- the mantra "don't be evil" has long been at the heart of Google's principles Thinking that the military of your own countr

> runs contrary to Google's ethos -- the mantra "don't be evil" has long been at the heart of Google's principles Thinking that the military of your own country is "evil" seems a bit puerile to me. Watching too many movies and TV shows can have that effect.

sincerely 8y ago
Why does the "evil"ness of a military have to do with whether it's your country or someone else's?
option_greek 8y ago
Because F16s are developed in USA and used only by US military ? /s
- briffle 8y ago
  F16's are used in many countries. They were developed in the US, but many, many countries use them (some of our NATO partners since the beginning) Since they were first developed, NATO partners: Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway Other European countries as soon as the mid-80's: Croatia, Greece, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Romania Middle east since the mid/late 80's: Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, UAE Africa: Morocco, Indonesia, Asia: Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand South America: Chile, Venezuela.
  - option_greek 8y ago
    My point exactly :) (check the /s = satire tag)
    - astrodust 8y ago
      /s = Sarcasm
  - ImSkeptical 8y ago
    I believe that's the point of the comment you are replying to. You may develop weapons believing in the goodness of your country's military, but those weapons may come into the hands of people with more dubious moral positions.
ggg9990 8y ago
It would be puerile for a Swedish person, far from it for an American. The fact that it’s the military of my own country has little to do with how evil it is or isn’t.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Thinking that the military of your own country is "evil" seems a bit puerile to me. How true this is in a specific case depends on what that country’s military is doing at the time; categorically dismissing the idea that a nation's military can reasonably be seen as evil by a citizen seems more than a bit naive to me.
vkou 8y ago
Watching too many movies and too much TV has the converse effect - for the most part, visual media is full of nationalistic ra-ra nonsense. The US military (As have all other militaries that have done anything of note) has done some ridiculously evil things. The drone strike program isn't the worst of them by any means, but it's not its brightest moment, either.
peterwwillis 8y ago
For years we have known that US drone strikes can very accurately kill anonymous people - often civilians (such as women and children): "Every independent investigation of the strikes has found far more civilian casualties than administration officials admit. Gradually, it has become clear that when operators in Nevada fire missiles into remote tribal territories on the other side of the world, they often do not know who they are killing, but are making an imperfect best guess." [1] "Leaked military documents reveal that the vast majority of people killed have not been the intended targets, with approximately 13% of deaths being the intended targets, 81% being other "militants", and 6% being civilians." [2] "strikes have killed 3,852 people, 476 of them civilians. But those counts, based on news accounts and some on-the-ground interviews, are considered very rough estimates" [1] Not only that, we bomb inside of countries that are (sort of?) our allies, without informing them and without their consent: "Pakistan's Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, has repeatedly demanded an end to the strikes, stating: "The use of drones is not only a continual violation of our territorial integrity but also detrimental to our resolve and efforts at eliminating terrorism from our country" [2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/drone-strikes-reveal-uncomfortable-truth-us-is-often-unsure-about-who-will-die.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/drone-strikes-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan Yeah, I have no problem calling our military evil.
- nunya213 8y ago
  Evil would be intentionally targeting civilians. You are simply deluded.
  - kaybe 8y ago
    It's not that simple, sadly.
  - vkou 8y ago
    So, as long as I'm thinking good thoughts, when I'm doing something evil, I am not evil?
    - 8y ago
istjohn 8y ago
You seem to be suggesting that the fact of one's residency in a country should influence one's moral evaluation of that country, that there should be a different set of standards applied to one's own country than a foreign country. I believe that standards of good and evil should be applied uniformly to all nation states. If anything, one should hold one's own country to a higher standard since you have the most hope of influencing your own nation's behavior. Arguably, it is precisely the inability to consider international conflict from a vantage point outside a nationalist worldview that is the root cause of all external wars.

sincerely 8y ago

Why does the "evil"ness of a military have to do with whether it's your country or someone else's?

option_greek 8y ago

Because F16s are developed in USA and used only by US military ? /s

briffle 8y ago
F16's are used in many countries. They were developed in the US, but many, many countries use them (some of our NATO partners since the beginning) Since they were first developed, NATO partners: Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway Other European countries as soon as the mid-80's: Croatia, Greece, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Romania Middle east since the mid/late 80's: Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, UAE Africa: Morocco, Indonesia, Asia: Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand South America: Chile, Venezuela.
- option_greek 8y ago
  My point exactly :) (check the /s = satire tag)
  - astrodust 8y ago
    /s = Sarcasm
- ImSkeptical 8y ago
  I believe that's the point of the comment you are replying to. You may develop weapons believing in the goodness of your country's military, but those weapons may come into the hands of people with more dubious moral positions.

ggg9990 8y ago

It would be puerile for a Swedish person, far from it for an American. The fact that it’s the military of my own country has little to do with how evil it is or isn’t.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Thinking that the military of your own country is "evil" seems a bit puerile to me. How true this is in a specific case depends on what that country’s military is doing at the time; categorically dismissing the idea that a nation's military can reasonably be seen as evil by a citizen seems more than a bit naive to me.

vkou 8y ago

Watching too many movies and too much TV has the converse effect - for the most part, visual media is full of nationalistic ra-ra nonsense. The US military (As have all other militaries that have done anything of note) has done some ridiculously evil things. The drone strike program isn't the worst of them by any means, but it's not its brightest moment, either.

peterwwillis 8y ago

For years we have known that US drone strikes can very accurately kill anonymous people - often civilians (such as women and children): "Every independent investigation of the strikes has found far more civilian casualties than administration officials admit. Gradually, it has become clear that when operators in Nevada fire missiles into remote tribal territories on the other side of the world, they often do not know who they are killing, but are making an imperfect best guess." [1] "Leaked military documents reveal that the vast majority of people killed have not been the intended targets, with approximately 13% of deaths being the intended targets, 81% being other "militants", and 6% being civilians." [2] "strikes have killed 3,852 people, 476 of them civilians. But those counts, based on news accounts and some on-the-ground interviews, are considered very rough estimates" [1] Not only that, we bomb inside of countries that are (sort of?) our allies, without informing them and without their consent: "Pakistan's Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, has repeatedly demanded an end to the strikes, stating: "The use of drones is not only a continual violation of our territorial integrity but also detrimental to our resolve and efforts at eliminating terrorism from our country" [2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/drone-strikes-reveal-uncomfortable-truth-us-is-often-unsure-about-who-will-die.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/world/asia/drone-strikes-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan Yeah, I have no problem calling our military evil.

nunya213 8y ago
Evil would be intentionally targeting civilians. You are simply deluded.
- kaybe 8y ago
  It's not that simple, sadly.
- vkou 8y ago
  So, as long as I'm thinking good thoughts, when I'm doing something evil, I am not evil?
  - 8y ago

istjohn 8y ago

You seem to be suggesting that the fact of one's residency in a country should influence one's moral evaluation of that country, that there should be a different set of standards applied to one's own country than a foreign country. I believe that standards of good and evil should be applied uniformly to all nation states. If anything, one should hold one's own country to a higher standard since you have the most hope of influencing your own nation's behavior. Arguably, it is precisely the inability to consider international conflict from a vantage point outside a nationalist worldview that is the root cause of all external wars.