7 ms·

The Gun-Law Loophole That Entices Tycoons and Criminals to Play Cop

25 points by thisisit 8y ago

maxerickson 8y ago
It seems simple enough to fix. Just add a paid hours requirement to the exemption, something like 500 hours in the previous 12 months or so. Or just get rid of it entirely.
- Kephael 8y ago
  Reserve police officers often undergo the same training and perform the same functions as full time law enforcement officers in many areas. There isn't any need for HR218 changes and police standards are set on a state by state basis. http://www.lapdonline.org/join_the_team/content_basic_view/542 http://www.lapdonline.org/join_the_team/content_basic_view/5...
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    We disagree that it is okay for wealthy people to buy badges. I'm pretty okay with letting reserve officers that don't do a lot of duty fall through the cracks, that's a better tradeoff than selling Stephen Seagull a badge.
    - gaius 8y ago
      Stephen Seagull a badge. Seagal actually went on patrol didn’t he? There was a TV show about it.
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        I think it may have been the case that a TV producer thought it would be fun to get him a badge more than he was any sort of serious volunteer for the particular police force.
    - Kephael 8y ago
      > We disagree that it is okay for wealthy people to buy badges. I don't think you should be able to simply purchase badges. I think reserve officers should go through the same hiring process as full time officers and attend a police academy.
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        So we just need to wait for the worst state to improve their standards for issuing badges then? Seems like it might be a long wait.
        rascul 8y ago
        Seems to me like it should be up to the state and the people in it to change their rules, if they desire to do so. It looks like the problem is the federal legislation which seems to override state decisions on who is allowed to carry concealed firearms and when.
  - dbasedweeb 8y ago
    Police are notoriously horrible marksmen, so color me unimpressed. Check out the citations here, from a very pro-gun site: https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible/ https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-...
- trill_bill 8y ago
  Or make it easier to conceal carry a weapon through all 50 states. It's completely natural to arm oneself for self defense. Criminalizing this is criminalizing our human nature to be prepared and ready.
generaltsos 8y ago
This sounds more like a problem with accountability for police departments than a fundamental flaw in LEOSA. Bloomberg is fundamentally opposed to any sort of pro-2A stance, however, so they would much rather blame the supposedly-lenient gun laws.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  Considering it's nigh impossible to get police departments to be accountable (who watches the watchmen?), I'm siding with Bloomberg that if we want to solve this problem, we'll have to change the laws first (and hopefully accountability will follow).
trill_bill 8y ago
If you didn't need a license to exercise a constitutional right this shady shit wouldn't exist.
- lightbyte 8y ago
  There is no constitutional right for the concealed-carry of a gun.
  - thrill 8y ago
    The Constitution doesn't address whether the right to bear arms is either open or concealed carry. The Constitution does not grant this right - it, among others, is considered a natural right, applicable to the free people. It only lists this right, among others, to emphasize that government is not supposed to infringe upon it. We all see how poorly that enumerated philosophy is followed, understood, accepted, or defended.
  - vokep 8y ago
    I think that depends on your view. There is no constitutional right for the concealed carry of a gun, based on your view of what the second amendment means.
  - pps43 8y ago
    It's hard to argue that "bear arms" means something other than "carry a gun". I don't think open vs. concealed matters in this context. It's probably even easier to "play a cop" with open carry.
  - mwilliaams 8y ago
    The Constitution mandates that people have the right to bear arms; it doesn't specify about concealed carry or open carry. Yet I, as a Californian, can do neither. Open carry is illegal in California, and only a small few can get a concealed carry permit (varies by county). It is very clear that Californians' constitutional rights are being "infringed".
  - trill_bill 8y ago
    Only if you some how believe that carrying a concealed weapon isn't bearing arms.
alphabettsy 8y ago
A man was killed in Tulsa by a wealthy “volunteer” deputy. This is all part of a larger problem of police accountability and training more than gun laws.
IronWolve 8y ago
AKA, People can join as auxiliary police to get police allowance to conceal carry. So, background check, they have to re-new application, if they get fired it gets revoked, if they commit a felony it gets revoked. And the majority of the reserve forces compromise ex-military and active duty service members. Article makes it sound like the badges are handed out in the millions by handing over a check to the police department. No idea why they had to pinpoint Dan Bilzerian as a poster child. Lots of people are auxiliary police force, just like auxiliary fire department, etc. Oh bloomberg, just stick to buying elections and gun laws, throwing millions at swinging votes and buying elected officials... The article is just absurd propaganda piece.
- rhcom2 8y ago
  > Oh bloomberg, just stick to buying elections What does this even mean?
wl 8y ago
There is no 50 state concealed carry license. In many states, applicants for licenses must be residents of that state. This makes armed security that can follow protectees across any state border impossible without such legal hacks.
- Frondo 8y ago
  So? States should be free to decide the terms of concealed gun carriers in their states. If you're rich enough to travel with people with hidden guns, you can get them licensed in the states you plan to visit.
  - gmiller123456 8y ago
    > you can get them licensed in the states you plan to visit You should reread the OP, many states do not allow non-residents to get permits. So someone who needed body guards would need a different set of body guards for every state they visit that doesn't honor their permit.
    - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
      They could solve that problem by getting that state to honor the permits from the state issuing the permits to their bodyguards.
      - wl 8y ago
        That would require legislation. As it stands, it is still impossible for bodyguards to have 50 state CCW without legal hacks like this one.
        CompanionCuuube 8y ago
        Then they should not carry guns where they do not have a valid permit.
      - gmiller123456 8y ago
imleft 8y ago
Bill of rights has a something similar.
mnm1 8y ago
The problem that they are carrying concealed weapons is minor compared to the problem of giving out cop badges for money. Just when I thought I couldn't respect cops less, they do this. It's not a few bad apples, it's a barrel full of only rotten apples.

25 points by thisisit 8y ago

It seems simple enough to fix. Just add a paid hours requirement to the exemption, something like 500 hours in the previous 12 months or so. Or just get rid of it entirely.

Kephael 8y ago
Reserve police officers often undergo the same training and perform the same functions as full time law enforcement officers in many areas. There isn't any need for HR218 changes and police standards are set on a state by state basis. http://www.lapdonline.org/join_the_team/content_basic_view/542 http://www.lapdonline.org/join_the_team/content_basic_view/5...
- maxerickson 8y ago
  We disagree that it is okay for wealthy people to buy badges. I'm pretty okay with letting reserve officers that don't do a lot of duty fall through the cracks, that's a better tradeoff than selling Stephen Seagull a badge.
  - gaius 8y ago
    Stephen Seagull a badge. Seagal actually went on patrol didn’t he? There was a TV show about it.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      I think it may have been the case that a TV producer thought it would be fun to get him a badge more than he was any sort of serious volunteer for the particular police force.
  - Kephael 8y ago
    > We disagree that it is okay for wealthy people to buy badges. I don't think you should be able to simply purchase badges. I think reserve officers should go through the same hiring process as full time officers and attend a police academy.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      So we just need to wait for the worst state to improve their standards for issuing badges then? Seems like it might be a long wait.
      - rascul 8y ago
        Seems to me like it should be up to the state and the people in it to change their rules, if they desire to do so. It looks like the problem is the federal legislation which seems to override state decisions on who is allowed to carry concealed firearms and when.
- dbasedweeb 8y ago
  Police are notoriously horrible marksmen, so color me unimpressed. Check out the citations here, from a very pro-gun site: https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-whos-responsible/ https://bearingarms.com/mike-m/2016/06/02/individual-safety-...
trill_bill 8y ago
Or make it easier to conceal carry a weapon through all 50 states. It's completely natural to arm oneself for self defense. Criminalizing this is criminalizing our human nature to be prepared and ready.

generaltsos 8y ago

This sounds more like a problem with accountability for police departments than a fundamental flaw in LEOSA. Bloomberg is fundamentally opposed to any sort of pro-2A stance, however, so they would much rather blame the supposedly-lenient gun laws.

jbob2000 8y ago
Considering it's nigh impossible to get police departments to be accountable (who watches the watchmen?), I'm siding with Bloomberg that if we want to solve this problem, we'll have to change the laws first (and hopefully accountability will follow).

trill_bill 8y ago

If you didn't need a license to exercise a constitutional right this shady shit wouldn't exist.

lightbyte 8y ago
There is no constitutional right for the concealed-carry of a gun.
- thrill 8y ago
  The Constitution doesn't address whether the right to bear arms is either open or concealed carry. The Constitution does not grant this right - it, among others, is considered a natural right, applicable to the free people. It only lists this right, among others, to emphasize that government is not supposed to infringe upon it. We all see how poorly that enumerated philosophy is followed, understood, accepted, or defended.
- vokep 8y ago
  I think that depends on your view. There is no constitutional right for the concealed carry of a gun, based on your view of what the second amendment means.
- pps43 8y ago
  It's hard to argue that "bear arms" means something other than "carry a gun". I don't think open vs. concealed matters in this context. It's probably even easier to "play a cop" with open carry.
- mwilliaams 8y ago
  The Constitution mandates that people have the right to bear arms; it doesn't specify about concealed carry or open carry. Yet I, as a Californian, can do neither. Open carry is illegal in California, and only a small few can get a concealed carry permit (varies by county). It is very clear that Californians' constitutional rights are being "infringed".
- trill_bill 8y ago
  Only if you some how believe that carrying a concealed weapon isn't bearing arms.

alphabettsy 8y ago

A man was killed in Tulsa by a wealthy “volunteer” deputy. This is all part of a larger problem of police accountability and training more than gun laws.

IronWolve 8y ago

AKA, People can join as auxiliary police to get police allowance to conceal carry. So, background check, they have to re-new application, if they get fired it gets revoked, if they commit a felony it gets revoked. And the majority of the reserve forces compromise ex-military and active duty service members. Article makes it sound like the badges are handed out in the millions by handing over a check to the police department. No idea why they had to pinpoint Dan Bilzerian as a poster child. Lots of people are auxiliary police force, just like auxiliary fire department, etc. Oh bloomberg, just stick to buying elections and gun laws, throwing millions at swinging votes and buying elected officials... The article is just absurd propaganda piece.

rhcom2 8y ago
> Oh bloomberg, just stick to buying elections What does this even mean?

wl 8y ago

There is no 50 state concealed carry license. In many states, applicants for licenses must be residents of that state. This makes armed security that can follow protectees across any state border impossible without such legal hacks.

Frondo 8y ago
So? States should be free to decide the terms of concealed gun carriers in their states. If you're rich enough to travel with people with hidden guns, you can get them licensed in the states you plan to visit.
- gmiller123456 8y ago
  > you can get them licensed in the states you plan to visit You should reread the OP, many states do not allow non-residents to get permits. So someone who needed body guards would need a different set of body guards for every state they visit that doesn't honor their permit.
  - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
    They could solve that problem by getting that state to honor the permits from the state issuing the permits to their bodyguards.
    - wl 8y ago
      That would require legislation. As it stands, it is still impossible for bodyguards to have 50 state CCW without legal hacks like this one.
      - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
        Then they should not carry guns where they do not have a valid permit.
    - gmiller123456 8y ago

imleft 8y ago

Bill of rights has a something similar.

mnm1 8y ago

The problem that they are carrying concealed weapons is minor compared to the problem of giving out cop badges for money. Just when I thought I couldn't respect cops less, they do this. It's not a few bad apples, it's a barrel full of only rotten apples.