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"A step in the right direction" What semi-decent human being inside Uber came up with this? How can people still work for this evil company?

rectang 8y ago
> What semi-decent human being inside Uber came up with this? Susan Fowler advocated for ending forced arbitration as the "the single most important thing a company can do to prove to its employees that it is dedicated to acting ethically, legally, responsibly, and transparently": https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech-companies-can-do-better https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech... No-forced-arbitration should be the norm. What other companies have the worst forced arbitration clauses?
- Lionsion 8y ago
  > No-forced-arbitration should be the norm. I'd go further to say that forced arbitration should be illegal/unenforceable without clear evidence informed affirmative consent, and that the offering of services cannot be made conditional on accepting it. I think a lot of the consent concepts pioneered in the GDPR could be reasonably applied to many consumer-unfriendly practices.
  - gowld 8y ago
    We have a lot of that in finance, like when you get a mortgage -- you have to sign a bunch of separate documents, one for each major concession. Informed consent may help, but it won't solve the root problem of "selling your fundamental rights", which some consider "unconscionable" (legal term for an agreement that is barred by law even if both parties claim they agree to it)
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      One of the key provisions of the GDPR is that the provider cannot shut you out of the service if you don't give consent, unless the data is vital to the operation of the feature. And needing to use the data for targeted advertising doesn't count.
ben_jones 8y ago
A lawyer being paid to mitigate risk for the company using industry best practices? Uber has 6700 employees are you calling them all bad people for choosing to make a living working for one of the premier tech companies? The world isn't black and white where you're on the good side and those people tangentially related to that thing you don't like are bad people. If we really want to improve on these problems we can't be so self-righteous.
- icebraining 8y ago
  You're tangentially related to your full time job? I think your employer is getting ripped off. The world is not black and white, but that doesn't mean we can't consider that certain groups have crossed a threshold (or ten) to one side of the spectrum.
lhorie 8y ago
> How can people still work for this evil company? Uber has been doing a lot recently (i.e. as of about mid last year) to fix itself - things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips, a top-down directive to permanently halt spying-related work in intelligence gathering, cooperating with authorities on the Tempe incident, etc. Generally speaking, people aren't inherently evil and want to do the right thing. Uber's new leadership now does too. Uber moves fast and I think it's time to re-evaluate whether the data points backing your opinion are outdated.
- gaius 8y ago
  things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips, Still not paying their taxes tho’. There’s a shedload Of Employer’s NI they owe us.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    > Still not paying their taxes Sorry, not familiar with this and googling isn't turning up anything. Is this the IRS's opinion or just your own?
    - gaius 8y ago
      Is this the IRS's opinion or just your own? IRS? Why would they be collecting a tax that only exists in the U.K.? The issue of Uber drivers being concealed employees is often in the papers and the courts. It is very surprising that you can’t find any mention. Perhaps you didn’t actually look?
      - lhorie 8y ago
        Oh, in the UK. Thanks, that helps me find more information. I'm not too familiar with taxation matters, but again, afaik, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether the IRS/HMRC/other countries tax depts are pursuing tax evasion charges, right? Is this actually the case?
zethraeus 8y ago
Because it's not actually evil. Source: my personal experience. :)
- iamcasen 8y ago
  Right? The public perception of Uber over the years has been fascinating to me. I worked there for quite a while, and I always had a laugh at how the media would portray something. It was almost always grasping at straws in an attempt to paint Uber evil. There has been legit bad news about Uber, especially the stuff Susan Fowler talked about. But you know what? We all give money to equally, or often times far more sinister organizations on a daily basis without batting an eye-lash. Why hold Uber more accountable than everyone else?
  - Karunamon 8y ago
    And most of that negative perception appears to come from Uber's early (not so much, anymore) flouting of what could charitably be described as regulatory capture nonsense. It basically took them coming in and ignoring the taxi laws to put the lie to the entrenched interests and say "See? The world didn't end after all."
  - zethraeus 8y ago
    IMO: Uber fucked up tremendously before. It's not doing so now.
  - gowld 8y ago
    We hold everyone as accountable as we can. Not sure why you think differently.
    - iamcasen 8y ago
      I'm glad you do, but I don't think that's true for most. You see constant praise of Lyft, but constant demonization of Uber. Lyft has quite literally done all of the "dirty" business tactics that Uber has. In fact, most of the reason Uber started operating UberX in cities without express permission is because Lyft was already doing so, and Uber noticed that there was no backlash against them for it. Unfortunately for the tech world, sexual harassment and misogyny is all too common. There are numerous reports about women in tech, and how hard it is and why many of them ultimately leave their careers. This is not something that has only occurred at Uber, and yet, all of the news about it is about Uber. All of the outrage about it is directed at Uber. For some reason, it's fun to hate on Uber, and it always has been. Let's hold Uber accountable, but let's also hold every other company accountable too. Let's have equal outrage for google, facebook, snapchat, and every other tech company that has done the same stuff. Let's have outrage for Blackwater(or whatever they changed their name to now): a company who literally profits off murder and the destabilization of world order. I say all of this as someone who experienced a lot of negativity while working for Uber, and I would never work there again. I don't think it is an "evil company" I just think they have chewed up and spit out a lot of folks on the way to the top.

rectang 8y ago

> What semi-decent human being inside Uber came up with this? Susan Fowler advocated for ending forced arbitration as the "the single most important thing a company can do to prove to its employees that it is dedicated to acting ethically, legally, responsibly, and transparently": https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech-companies-can-do-better https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech... No-forced-arbitration should be the norm. What other companies have the worst forced arbitration clauses?

Lionsion 8y ago
> No-forced-arbitration should be the norm. I'd go further to say that forced arbitration should be illegal/unenforceable without clear evidence informed affirmative consent, and that the offering of services cannot be made conditional on accepting it. I think a lot of the consent concepts pioneered in the GDPR could be reasonably applied to many consumer-unfriendly practices.
- gowld 8y ago
  We have a lot of that in finance, like when you get a mortgage -- you have to sign a bunch of separate documents, one for each major concession. Informed consent may help, but it won't solve the root problem of "selling your fundamental rights", which some consider "unconscionable" (legal term for an agreement that is barred by law even if both parties claim they agree to it)
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    One of the key provisions of the GDPR is that the provider cannot shut you out of the service if you don't give consent, unless the data is vital to the operation of the feature. And needing to use the data for targeted advertising doesn't count.

ben_jones 8y ago

A lawyer being paid to mitigate risk for the company using industry best practices? Uber has 6700 employees are you calling them all bad people for choosing to make a living working for one of the premier tech companies? The world isn't black and white where you're on the good side and those people tangentially related to that thing you don't like are bad people. If we really want to improve on these problems we can't be so self-righteous.

icebraining 8y ago
You're tangentially related to your full time job? I think your employer is getting ripped off. The world is not black and white, but that doesn't mean we can't consider that certain groups have crossed a threshold (or ten) to one side of the spectrum.

lhorie 8y ago

> How can people still work for this evil company? Uber has been doing a lot recently (i.e. as of about mid last year) to fix itself - things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips, a top-down directive to permanently halt spying-related work in intelligence gathering, cooperating with authorities on the Tempe incident, etc. Generally speaking, people aren't inherently evil and want to do the right thing. Uber's new leadership now does too. Uber moves fast and I think it's time to re-evaluate whether the data points backing your opinion are outdated.

gaius 8y ago
things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips, Still not paying their taxes tho’. There’s a shedload Of Employer’s NI they owe us.
- lhorie 8y ago
  > Still not paying their taxes Sorry, not familiar with this and googling isn't turning up anything. Is this the IRS's opinion or just your own?
  - gaius 8y ago
    Is this the IRS's opinion or just your own? IRS? Why would they be collecting a tax that only exists in the U.K.? The issue of Uber drivers being concealed employees is often in the papers and the courts. It is very surprising that you can’t find any mention. Perhaps you didn’t actually look?
    - lhorie 8y ago
      Oh, in the UK. Thanks, that helps me find more information. I'm not too familiar with taxation matters, but again, afaik, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether the IRS/HMRC/other countries tax depts are pursuing tax evasion charges, right? Is this actually the case?

zethraeus 8y ago

Because it's not actually evil. Source: my personal experience. :)

iamcasen 8y ago
Right? The public perception of Uber over the years has been fascinating to me. I worked there for quite a while, and I always had a laugh at how the media would portray something. It was almost always grasping at straws in an attempt to paint Uber evil. There has been legit bad news about Uber, especially the stuff Susan Fowler talked about. But you know what? We all give money to equally, or often times far more sinister organizations on a daily basis without batting an eye-lash. Why hold Uber more accountable than everyone else?
- Karunamon 8y ago
  And most of that negative perception appears to come from Uber's early (not so much, anymore) flouting of what could charitably be described as regulatory capture nonsense. It basically took them coming in and ignoring the taxi laws to put the lie to the entrenched interests and say "See? The world didn't end after all."
- zethraeus 8y ago
  IMO: Uber fucked up tremendously before. It's not doing so now.
- gowld 8y ago
  We hold everyone as accountable as we can. Not sure why you think differently.
  - iamcasen 8y ago
    I'm glad you do, but I don't think that's true for most. You see constant praise of Lyft, but constant demonization of Uber. Lyft has quite literally done all of the "dirty" business tactics that Uber has. In fact, most of the reason Uber started operating UberX in cities without express permission is because Lyft was already doing so, and Uber noticed that there was no backlash against them for it. Unfortunately for the tech world, sexual harassment and misogyny is all too common. There are numerous reports about women in tech, and how hard it is and why many of them ultimately leave their careers. This is not something that has only occurred at Uber, and yet, all of the news about it is about Uber. All of the outrage about it is directed at Uber. For some reason, it's fun to hate on Uber, and it always has been. Let's hold Uber accountable, but let's also hold every other company accountable too. Let's have equal outrage for google, facebook, snapchat, and every other tech company that has done the same stuff. Let's have outrage for Blackwater(or whatever they changed their name to now): a company who literally profits off murder and the destabilization of world order. I say all of this as someone who experienced a lot of negativity while working for Uber, and I would never work there again. I don't think it is an "evil company" I just think they have chewed up and spit out a lot of folks on the way to the top.