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In other words the NSA had a great reputation up until anyone knew it existed? They aren't NIST, they are a spy agency.

sandworm101 8y ago
They didn't start out as a spy agency. That was the CIA's job. NSA were the security experts. They built the tools that protected government systems, and the systems of government contractors (aerospace). That they are now called a "spy agency" shows that reputation is long gone. Of course now the CIA is flying armed drones and the NYPD has a foreign intelligence branch. The old job descriptions are irrelevant. Everyone can do everything these days. Ask the old hats about "no such agency". If you were working with the US government in the 80s/90s you knew the term.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  SIGINT, that is spying on electronic communications, has always been a core part of the NSA's mission. They have always been a spy agency. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > They didn't start out as a spy agency. They were a spy agency as long as they were the NSA, and inherited that function from prior, WWII spy agencies. > That was the CIA's job. CIA is a civilian spy agency focussed on HUMINT, analysis, and open source intelligence, and also the lead US spy agency (and it's head was essentially the overall head of intelligence prior to the separate DNI), while NSA has always been a defense department spy agency and the lead SIGINT spy agency. > NSA were the security experts. They have that function, too, but they have been a spy agency back to 1945 (before being public in 1952) and inherited duties from prior spy agencies when they were founded.
alephnil 8y ago
While the NSA never have given reasons for their recommendations, they did at least to some extent contribute to securing standards in the past. One example was DES, that NSA changed the key schedule, at the same time reducing it from 128-bit to 56 bits around 1976. They never said why, but 15 years later, in 1991, the academic crypto community discovered differential cryptanalysis, and found that the changes suggested by NSA was in fact strengthening DES, not weakening it. The attack made possible by differential cryptanalysis require 2^55 steps, which is the same as a brute force attack against a 56-bit key. That indicates that NSA knew differential cryptanalysis already in 1976, but only modified DES to being able to resist it, not telling about the attack. The reduced key length of the new key schedule indicated the actual strength of the cipher, without revealing the attack. NSA recommendations was also one of the reasons that the Rijndael cipher was chosen as AES. So at least in the late 90s they had some positive reputation. As far as I can tell, the tipping point is 2001. After that, the spy part NSA seems to have all the leverage, and to actively propose backdoored standards is not below their dignity.

They didn't start out as a spy agency. That was the CIA's job. NSA were the security experts. They built the tools that protected government systems, and the systems of government contractors (aerospace). That they are now called a "spy agency" shows that reputation is long gone. Of course now the CIA is flying armed drones and the NYPD has a foreign intelligence branch. The old job descriptions are irrelevant. Everyone can do everything these days. Ask the old hats about "no such agency". If you were working with the US government in the 80s/90s you knew the term.

throwaway2048 8y ago
SIGINT, that is spying on electronic communications, has always been a core part of the NSA's mission. They have always been a spy agency. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
dragonwriter 8y ago
> They didn't start out as a spy agency. They were a spy agency as long as they were the NSA, and inherited that function from prior, WWII spy agencies. > That was the CIA's job. CIA is a civilian spy agency focussed on HUMINT, analysis, and open source intelligence, and also the lead US spy agency (and it's head was essentially the overall head of intelligence prior to the separate DNI), while NSA has always been a defense department spy agency and the lead SIGINT spy agency. > NSA were the security experts. They have that function, too, but they have been a spy agency back to 1945 (before being public in 1952) and inherited duties from prior spy agencies when they were founded.

alephnil 8y ago

While the NSA never have given reasons for their recommendations, they did at least to some extent contribute to securing standards in the past. One example was DES, that NSA changed the key schedule, at the same time reducing it from 128-bit to 56 bits around 1976. They never said why, but 15 years later, in 1991, the academic crypto community discovered differential cryptanalysis, and found that the changes suggested by NSA was in fact strengthening DES, not weakening it. The attack made possible by differential cryptanalysis require 2^55 steps, which is the same as a brute force attack against a 56-bit key. That indicates that NSA knew differential cryptanalysis already in 1976, but only modified DES to being able to resist it, not telling about the attack. The reduced key length of the new key schedule indicated the actual strength of the cipher, without revealing the attack. NSA recommendations was also one of the reasons that the Rijndael cipher was chosen as AES. So at least in the late 90s they had some positive reputation. As far as I can tell, the tipping point is 2001. After that, the spy part NSA seems to have all the leverage, and to actively propose backdoored standards is not below their dignity.