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I find reading Spinoza's rational idea of Ethics oddly resolves around the concept of love. I find that I first read Spinoza as the source for Spock in Star Tre

I find reading Spinoza's rational idea of Ethics oddly resolves around the concept of love. I find that I first read Spinoza as the source for Spock in Star Trek. First the idea of love for Spinoza is that truly free persons actively avoid love as in love is a passion. Second that the "rational/noble" love of doing good to others ethically is the center piece of ethics. Proposal 43 "Hatred is increased by being reciprocated, and can on the other hand be destroyed by love." "For by “courage” I understand “the desire by which each person endeavors to preserve his being in accordance with the dictate of reason alone,” and by “nobility” I understand “the desire by which each person, in accordance with the dictate of reason alone, endeavors to help other men and join them to him in friendship.”" Page 73 of Ethics published in 1949 (Copy on my shelf) When i talk about Spinoza in academic worlds I have the belief that Kierkegaard (Acts of Love in specific) and Spinoza are agreeing and talking about the same ethics of love. Though they disagree about everything else about love it is love that makes us be ethical to our neighbors. I try to make my children understand that we make those around us better because we care about their well-being and that while we disagree with people we do so with the idea that we care for them also.

coliveira 8y ago
Is important to be aware that the word love has lost its meaning throughout the ages. Love for the ancient and medievals was akin to the word passion, which means literally suffering. Its meaning was like "suffering for someone or something else", which we would call altruistic. Modern love is more akin to "like", and has a general meaning of "mutual affinity". Like many concepts in the modern world, it acquired a individualistic connotation that didn't exist in the past.
- rskar 8y ago
  Could you give a citation for that "love for the ancient and medievals was akin to the word passion"? My understanding of that love-to-passion link is by way of Christianity, i.e. love as the motivation for the suffering (of Jesus). Otherwise, etymology doesn't show/suggest that sort of change in the meaning of "love" (e.g. http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/110566 http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/110566). If anything, there's been a change in the meaning of "passion" (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/passion https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/passion).
  - coliveira 8y ago
    There is a lot of research around this topic, but here is an excerpt of an article from the Univ. of Oxford that touches on this change, that started to happen by the end of the middle ages: "People in every time and culture have fallen in love, but not every culture has written about love or valued it in the same way. 'In the 12th century, romantic love became something that was worth celebrating and exploring in songs and stories - and you only have to look at modern film and music to see that legacy is still with us.' Before the Norman conquest of England, Anglo-Saxon literature had a very different focus, said Professor Ashe. 'The world of the Anglo-Saxon warrior, at least in poetry, was based on the bond of loyalty between fighting men. Love in this world means love for your fellow warriors, and the idea of sacrificing yourself for the group." http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/did-love-begin-middle-ages http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/did-love-begin-middle-age...
    - rskar 8y ago
      Maybe this is my limitation, but it still looks like "love" means about the same at its core, thru the times - I don't see a "lost meaning" to it. But I do see "flavors" for love, if you will - motivations or contexts for the love. And I accept the point that "not every culture has written about love or valued it in the same way." Yet the cited article does not indicate "love" as meaning "suffering for someone or something else" or anything like that. Instead, we get something about "tragic love" (an apparent "contradiction in terms"): "In the Middle Ages, the idea that suffering was in some way productive was very widespread." Earlier in that article: "So what changed in the Middle Ages? 'There was a transformation in culture,’ said Professor Ashe. ‘A series of church reforms in the 12th century took Christianity from a rather austere view of God the Father to a new focus on Christ's humanity. 'The spiritual lives of ordinary people were recognised, and people were encouraged to have a more emotional and personal relationship with God as individuals. And romantic love - giving yourself to another person - provides a justification, in the medieval moral compass, for the pursuit of self-fulfilment as an individual." And from there, I would argue, "passion" took on a definition of "love" (and not the other way round).
      - 8y ago

coliveira 8y ago

Is important to be aware that the word love has lost its meaning throughout the ages. Love for the ancient and medievals was akin to the word passion, which means literally suffering. Its meaning was like "suffering for someone or something else", which we would call altruistic. Modern love is more akin to "like", and has a general meaning of "mutual affinity". Like many concepts in the modern world, it acquired a individualistic connotation that didn't exist in the past.

rskar 8y ago
Could you give a citation for that "love for the ancient and medievals was akin to the word passion"? My understanding of that love-to-passion link is by way of Christianity, i.e. love as the motivation for the suffering (of Jesus). Otherwise, etymology doesn't show/suggest that sort of change in the meaning of "love" (e.g. http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/110566 http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/110566). If anything, there's been a change in the meaning of "passion" (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/passion https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/passion).
- coliveira 8y ago
  There is a lot of research around this topic, but here is an excerpt of an article from the Univ. of Oxford that touches on this change, that started to happen by the end of the middle ages: "People in every time and culture have fallen in love, but not every culture has written about love or valued it in the same way. 'In the 12th century, romantic love became something that was worth celebrating and exploring in songs and stories - and you only have to look at modern film and music to see that legacy is still with us.' Before the Norman conquest of England, Anglo-Saxon literature had a very different focus, said Professor Ashe. 'The world of the Anglo-Saxon warrior, at least in poetry, was based on the bond of loyalty between fighting men. Love in this world means love for your fellow warriors, and the idea of sacrificing yourself for the group." http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/did-love-begin-middle-ages http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/arts-blog/did-love-begin-middle-age...
  - rskar 8y ago
    Maybe this is my limitation, but it still looks like "love" means about the same at its core, thru the times - I don't see a "lost meaning" to it. But I do see "flavors" for love, if you will - motivations or contexts for the love. And I accept the point that "not every culture has written about love or valued it in the same way." Yet the cited article does not indicate "love" as meaning "suffering for someone or something else" or anything like that. Instead, we get something about "tragic love" (an apparent "contradiction in terms"): "In the Middle Ages, the idea that suffering was in some way productive was very widespread." Earlier in that article: "So what changed in the Middle Ages? 'There was a transformation in culture,’ said Professor Ashe. ‘A series of church reforms in the 12th century took Christianity from a rather austere view of God the Father to a new focus on Christ's humanity. 'The spiritual lives of ordinary people were recognised, and people were encouraged to have a more emotional and personal relationship with God as individuals. And romantic love - giving yourself to another person - provides a justification, in the medieval moral compass, for the pursuit of self-fulfilment as an individual." And from there, I would argue, "passion" took on a definition of "love" (and not the other way round).
    - 8y ago