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I just built a Hackintosh on what perhaps might be the closest modern equivalent to an old-style MacBook Pro not made by Apple, the HP Spectre x360, and while t

I just built a Hackintosh on what perhaps might be the closest modern equivalent to an old-style MacBook Pro not made by Apple, the HP Spectre x360, and while the process of getting it up and running requires some technical knowledge, it was something I was able to do, start to finish, in less than a week. (Even the touchscreen works!) I've used Macs for 15 years, and I wanted to keep using Macs, but I had a real problem with the fact that Apple has let its upgrade cycle become so lax, has fostered a lack of upgradability, and hasn't done enough to support an ecosystem of creatives that have been very passionate about their products over the years. That speaks to a company not listening to customer needs—one that is trying to translate a mobile business model to desktop users. It speaks to a company that walked away from its users, not the other way around. If Apple's not going to make its machines more upgradeable, it should at least, for the love of God, upgrade its processor architectures without having to have a keynote every single time. They do so few keynotes in 2018 that it's messing up their ability to release products.

_red 8y ago
I'm much in the same boat as you (haven't built a hackintosh but contemplating). Its more than just being "lax" though, their product vision has fundamentally changed under Cook. What they've done to the MacMini is a perfect example: Around 2013/14 they saw that Mac Mini's were becoming powerful enough to start syphoning off market from Mac Pros (not in video world, but in music production world). So, Cook did what "operation types" do...hobbled the MacMini and released a slew of upgraded iMacs to reach a higher price point. The days are gone where Apple designs "the best product possible", now its largely devices to tick boxes in a marketing feature matrix. While operationally it seems clever -- even logical -- it does ultimately undermine the brand long-term.
- mdimec4 8y ago
  Wuldn't it be easier to just instal linux then?
  - orbitur 8y ago
    Yeah, but then you have to use Linux.
    - hungerstrike 8y ago
      That's why I use Windows. It's got better file and window management than Mac, more software, more hardware and more hooks to let me do what I want. Not only that - it's way, way easier to setup my dev tools for things like Node.js, Python and Golang... I just run a couple of graphical installers and I'm done. On my Macs, I have to look up the secret incantations every time and do all sorts of configuration to make the Macintosh OS even usable.
      - lloyd-christmas 8y ago
        > Node.js I'm not sure where your downloading your software, as there is (and has been for at least the last 4 years) a graphical installer on the downloads page for osx: https://nodejs.org/en/download/ https://nodejs.org/en/download/ Maybe I just haven't paid enough attention when doing this, but nearly every repository of every package for node has the default instructions for *nix command line. One of my most used packages is `n`, and the first line after the description is "Unfortunately n is not supported on Windows yet" It's main alternative, `nvm` also has: "Note: nvm does not support Windows" and suggests an alternative specifically named `nvm-windows`. When you have to specify the operating system in the name, it's typically the "off-brand".
        hungerstrike 8y ago
        I bet you don’t use the graphical installer on your Mac though do you? Why is that? What do you do instead?
        lloyd-christmas 8y ago
        > I bet you don’t use the graphical installer on your Mac though do you? Your mind reading skills are terrible. I'm not sure who or what gave you that impression. EDIT: Again, from the node site, clicking on install with package manager, both windows and osx lead off with "simply download the installer" before listing alternatives. https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#macos https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#macos https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#windows https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#windows
- photojosh 8y ago
  Oh, the mini... I've got the quad-core, dual drive 2012 mini doing server duties. Because CPUs haven't advanced that much since then, it still keeps up pretty well. Even about to turn it into a low-end gaming box for the kids with an eGPU (works via patching the eGPU detection to allow original Thunderbolt and not just TB3). I'll be very sad when it dies. A modern version of that Mac with better integrated graphics would be fantastic, but as your post says... that would eat too much into the Mac Pro and iMac sales. Blergh.
segmondy 8y ago
A week? How many hours total?
- shortformblog 8y ago
  Working around a full time job and other responsibilities, I maybe invested 10-15 hours into the project. It required a hardware upgrade (the WiFi card needs to be of a certain kind of model, and I had to wait on that to be delivered), some patching of the DSDT (which I had no experience with, though I pulled it off), and general troubleshooting. I was able to work through a series of guides online, which helped make the process somewhat less painful (though the devil's in the details, and there were a lot of details). I would say the biggest time suck was the troubleshooting. I'm not a programmer or an engineer, and I've done little in the way of repairs and upgrades to machines beyond upgrading the RAM, but I was able to figure it out. Among the biggest time sucks: I did run into some headaches involving the Intel graphics card not booting properly sometimes, but it took me a while to figure out that's what it was. That probably was a big part of the reason it didn't take me, say, three hours.
wilsonnb 8y ago
So because you think that Apple isn't listening to your needs, you can take the OS that they created and use it however you want to? I am honestly surprised at how many people in this thread don't seem to care about Apple's right to decide how people use the software that they licensed from Apple.
- ksk 8y ago
  Ive come to accept that nerds only care about copyright when its about GPL'd code, and not music/movies/proprietary software.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I could see how someone is more frustrated by theft from the commons than one of the wealthiest multinationals in the world.
- Hamuko 8y ago
  I care as much as Apple does, which is to say, not at all. I got my license fair and square out of Apple's App Store with the purchase of a Mac. I then put it on a flash drive and installed it on another PC. Didn't fail any license check whatsoever since Apple has no interest in making any.
  - wilsonnb 8y ago
    It's right there in section 2B of the EULA that you're only permitted to install it on Apple computers. Why would they put that in there if they didn't care? https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf
    - Hamuko 8y ago
      Why would they not implement a license key to macOS installation if they did care? iTunes EULA forbids users from developing missile weapons with iTunes, but I sincerely doubt that Apple actually cares about this fine point. Also, as a document, macOS EULA is worth to me as much as a piece of toilet paper.

_red 8y ago

I'm much in the same boat as you (haven't built a hackintosh but contemplating). Its more than just being "lax" though, their product vision has fundamentally changed under Cook. What they've done to the MacMini is a perfect example: Around 2013/14 they saw that Mac Mini's were becoming powerful enough to start syphoning off market from Mac Pros (not in video world, but in music production world). So, Cook did what "operation types" do...hobbled the MacMini and released a slew of upgraded iMacs to reach a higher price point. The days are gone where Apple designs "the best product possible", now its largely devices to tick boxes in a marketing feature matrix. While operationally it seems clever -- even logical -- it does ultimately undermine the brand long-term.

mdimec4 8y ago
Wuldn't it be easier to just instal linux then?
- orbitur 8y ago
  Yeah, but then you have to use Linux.
  - hungerstrike 8y ago
    That's why I use Windows. It's got better file and window management than Mac, more software, more hardware and more hooks to let me do what I want. Not only that - it's way, way easier to setup my dev tools for things like Node.js, Python and Golang... I just run a couple of graphical installers and I'm done. On my Macs, I have to look up the secret incantations every time and do all sorts of configuration to make the Macintosh OS even usable.
    - lloyd-christmas 8y ago
      > Node.js I'm not sure where your downloading your software, as there is (and has been for at least the last 4 years) a graphical installer on the downloads page for osx: https://nodejs.org/en/download/ https://nodejs.org/en/download/ Maybe I just haven't paid enough attention when doing this, but nearly every repository of every package for node has the default instructions for *nix command line. One of my most used packages is `n`, and the first line after the description is "Unfortunately n is not supported on Windows yet" It's main alternative, `nvm` also has: "Note: nvm does not support Windows" and suggests an alternative specifically named `nvm-windows`. When you have to specify the operating system in the name, it's typically the "off-brand".
      - hungerstrike 8y ago
        I bet you don’t use the graphical installer on your Mac though do you? Why is that? What do you do instead?
        lloyd-christmas 8y ago
        > I bet you don’t use the graphical installer on your Mac though do you? Your mind reading skills are terrible. I'm not sure who or what gave you that impression. EDIT: Again, from the node site, clicking on install with package manager, both windows and osx lead off with "simply download the installer" before listing alternatives. https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#macos https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#macos https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#windows https://nodejs.org/en/download/package-manager/#windows
photojosh 8y ago
Oh, the mini... I've got the quad-core, dual drive 2012 mini doing server duties. Because CPUs haven't advanced that much since then, it still keeps up pretty well. Even about to turn it into a low-end gaming box for the kids with an eGPU (works via patching the eGPU detection to allow original Thunderbolt and not just TB3). I'll be very sad when it dies. A modern version of that Mac with better integrated graphics would be fantastic, but as your post says... that would eat too much into the Mac Pro and iMac sales. Blergh.

segmondy 8y ago

A week? How many hours total?

shortformblog 8y ago
Working around a full time job and other responsibilities, I maybe invested 10-15 hours into the project. It required a hardware upgrade (the WiFi card needs to be of a certain kind of model, and I had to wait on that to be delivered), some patching of the DSDT (which I had no experience with, though I pulled it off), and general troubleshooting. I was able to work through a series of guides online, which helped make the process somewhat less painful (though the devil's in the details, and there were a lot of details). I would say the biggest time suck was the troubleshooting. I'm not a programmer or an engineer, and I've done little in the way of repairs and upgrades to machines beyond upgrading the RAM, but I was able to figure it out. Among the biggest time sucks: I did run into some headaches involving the Intel graphics card not booting properly sometimes, but it took me a while to figure out that's what it was. That probably was a big part of the reason it didn't take me, say, three hours.

wilsonnb 8y ago

So because you think that Apple isn't listening to your needs, you can take the OS that they created and use it however you want to? I am honestly surprised at how many people in this thread don't seem to care about Apple's right to decide how people use the software that they licensed from Apple.

ksk 8y ago
Ive come to accept that nerds only care about copyright when its about GPL'd code, and not music/movies/proprietary software.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I could see how someone is more frustrated by theft from the commons than one of the wealthiest multinationals in the world.
Hamuko 8y ago
I care as much as Apple does, which is to say, not at all. I got my license fair and square out of Apple's App Store with the purchase of a Mac. I then put it on a flash drive and installed it on another PC. Didn't fail any license check whatsoever since Apple has no interest in making any.
- wilsonnb 8y ago
  It's right there in section 2B of the EULA that you're only permitted to install it on Apple computers. Why would they put that in there if they didn't care? https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf
  - Hamuko 8y ago
    Why would they not implement a license key to macOS installation if they did care? iTunes EULA forbids users from developing missile weapons with iTunes, but I sincerely doubt that Apple actually cares about this fine point. Also, as a document, macOS EULA is worth to me as much as a piece of toilet paper.