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The fact that Apple actively takes measures to prevent MacOS from running on foreign hardware (including virtual machines) really annoys me. If I want to publis

The fact that Apple actively takes measures to prevent MacOS from running on foreign hardware (including virtual machines) really annoys me. If I want to publish a cross-platform app for iOS, I literally have to buy a device just for compiling and uploading the archive. That's not the case for any other mobile platform I've ever seen. This is even more ironic considering the good reputation of being open that Apple has for some people, and tries to promote through marketing.

pjmlp 8y ago
> That's not the case for any other mobile platform I've ever seen. Try to target Windows devices from other OSes, or getting console or embedded OEM compiler SDKs for anything other than Windows.
- rhaps0dy 8y ago
  But you don't _have_ to buy a Windows device, and may just use a virtual machine.
  - crottypeter 8y ago
    Yeah, plus maybe GGP has never _seen_ a Windows mobile :)
    - blauditore 8y ago
      I've used Windows Phone and Windows Mobile, and published for both. While you still need Windows for compilation and packaging, you can at least do so in a virtual machine quite effortlessly, as rhaps0dy pointed out.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Angostura 8y ago
Apple's a hardware manufacturer and one of its USPs is the software that it bundles withg its hardware. It's sad that you're annoyed. But not sad enough for Apple to change its business model. Or alternatively... think of the Mac, not as a computer, but as a dongle.
- linguae 8y ago
  Which raises an interesting question....this may sound extremely farfetched, but what if we took the "dongle" concept to its logical conclusion? The Intel Compute Stick already exists; what if Apple sold its own compute sticks with macOS installed on them so that way one could have a portable macOS experience? In a way, we already have this, already in a much less compact form: the Mac Mini. Ever since its introduction in 2005 the Mac Mini has been marketed as a device where you "bring your own keyboard, display, and mouse." It was always intended to be a drop-in replacement for a PC, kid of like today's Intel Compute Sticks and Intel NUC's. A PC "dongle", if you will. But imagine if this "dongle" could be connected to a PC that could boost the power of the Mac Mini, which is necessary for some users since the Mac Mini is (sadly) not user-serviceable? If it's possible to offload the computation of a Mac Mini to a PC, then it's possible to treat the Mac Mini as a macOS dongle. It may not be the ideal solution, but I'm sure that Apple would charge near-Mac Mini prices for licensing macOS to PC users if Apple ever opened to the idea. It's a farfetched idea, but it may provide additional options for macOS users who don't want to switch to Windows or Linux.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Apple doesn’t want its software running on hardware it doesn’t control, period.
    - sjwright 8y ago
      My dream product from Apple would be a bare "Mac" in the form of an mATX motherboard paired with a macOS license. They could even make it very clear that they won't offer AppleCare or full Genius Bar service for it—a product for developers, hackers and gamers who are willing to self-support.
bogle 8y ago
Whilst macOS requires an Intel chip to run you can still create a VM easily enough, just as long as the host is Intel. The license, however, says you aren't allowed to do this.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  No: you can do so on a Mac.
auslander 8y ago
I don't think Apple cares. To block hacks is super easy, just check serials or block kexts, yet here we are running them.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Well, there is a kext called DontStealMacOSX that does rudimentary decryption…
  - auslander 8y ago
    Lol, I bought Snow Leopard CD back in the days $30 something :))
  - sjwright 8y ago
    Have they renamed it since Sierra?
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      I was on mobile, so I didn't get the exact name right. It's actually "Dont Steal Mac OS X.kext".
userbinator 8y ago
The fact that Apple actively takes measures to prevent MacOS from running on foreign hardware (including virtual machines) really annoys me I tried a Hackintosh VM in VirtualBox recently, just to play around, and it was surprisingly easy. AFAIK all that distinguishes "non-Apple" from Apple hardware is an "SMCDeviceKey", a short identifier in the BIOS, and a few other (mostly cosmetic) version strings. With a VM, all you need to do is set those and boot from an ISO --- there are instructions around to create one from the appstore package. No modification of the OS itself was needed; it thinks it's running on a real Mac.
- AlexeyBrin 8y ago
  > I tried a Hackintosh VM in VirtualBox recently, just to play around, and it was surprisingly easy. I'm sure people (I) will appreciate some links. Thanks.
  - funkaster 8y ago
    Here's one that I use: https://github.com/AndrewDryga/vagrant-box-osx/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/AndrewDryga/vagrant-box-osx/blob/master/R...
  - flatfilefan 8y ago
    https://techsviewer.com/how-to-install-mac-os-x-el-capitan-on-pc-on-virtualbox/ https://techsviewer.com/how-to-install-mac-os-x-el-capitan-o...
- blauditore 8y ago
  Yeah, I did it too a while back. I don't remember the details, but some changes on the VM were required. Even if fairly minor, it was quite clear they were necessary solely because MacOS actively checks for those flags and refuses to boot otherwise.

pjmlp 8y ago

> That's not the case for any other mobile platform I've ever seen. Try to target Windows devices from other OSes, or getting console or embedded OEM compiler SDKs for anything other than Windows.

rhaps0dy 8y ago
But you don't _have_ to buy a Windows device, and may just use a virtual machine.
- crottypeter 8y ago
  Yeah, plus maybe GGP has never _seen_ a Windows mobile :)
  - blauditore 8y ago
    I've used Windows Phone and Windows Mobile, and published for both. While you still need Windows for compilation and packaging, you can at least do so in a virtual machine quite effortlessly, as rhaps0dy pointed out.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Angostura 8y ago

Apple's a hardware manufacturer and one of its USPs is the software that it bundles withg its hardware. It's sad that you're annoyed. But not sad enough for Apple to change its business model. Or alternatively... think of the Mac, not as a computer, but as a dongle.

linguae 8y ago
Which raises an interesting question....this may sound extremely farfetched, but what if we took the "dongle" concept to its logical conclusion? The Intel Compute Stick already exists; what if Apple sold its own compute sticks with macOS installed on them so that way one could have a portable macOS experience? In a way, we already have this, already in a much less compact form: the Mac Mini. Ever since its introduction in 2005 the Mac Mini has been marketed as a device where you "bring your own keyboard, display, and mouse." It was always intended to be a drop-in replacement for a PC, kid of like today's Intel Compute Sticks and Intel NUC's. A PC "dongle", if you will. But imagine if this "dongle" could be connected to a PC that could boost the power of the Mac Mini, which is necessary for some users since the Mac Mini is (sadly) not user-serviceable? If it's possible to offload the computation of a Mac Mini to a PC, then it's possible to treat the Mac Mini as a macOS dongle. It may not be the ideal solution, but I'm sure that Apple would charge near-Mac Mini prices for licensing macOS to PC users if Apple ever opened to the idea. It's a farfetched idea, but it may provide additional options for macOS users who don't want to switch to Windows or Linux.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Apple doesn’t want its software running on hardware it doesn’t control, period.
  - sjwright 8y ago
    My dream product from Apple would be a bare "Mac" in the form of an mATX motherboard paired with a macOS license. They could even make it very clear that they won't offer AppleCare or full Genius Bar service for it—a product for developers, hackers and gamers who are willing to self-support.

bogle 8y ago

Whilst macOS requires an Intel chip to run you can still create a VM easily enough, just as long as the host is Intel. The license, however, says you aren't allowed to do this.

saagarjha 8y ago
No: you can do so on a Mac.

auslander 8y ago

I don't think Apple cares. To block hacks is super easy, just check serials or block kexts, yet here we are running them.

saagarjha 8y ago
Well, there is a kext called DontStealMacOSX that does rudimentary decryption…
- auslander 8y ago
  Lol, I bought Snow Leopard CD back in the days $30 something :))
- sjwright 8y ago
  Have they renamed it since Sierra?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    I was on mobile, so I didn't get the exact name right. It's actually "Dont Steal Mac OS X.kext".

userbinator 8y ago

The fact that Apple actively takes measures to prevent MacOS from running on foreign hardware (including virtual machines) really annoys me I tried a Hackintosh VM in VirtualBox recently, just to play around, and it was surprisingly easy. AFAIK all that distinguishes "non-Apple" from Apple hardware is an "SMCDeviceKey", a short identifier in the BIOS, and a few other (mostly cosmetic) version strings. With a VM, all you need to do is set those and boot from an ISO --- there are instructions around to create one from the appstore package. No modification of the OS itself was needed; it thinks it's running on a real Mac.

AlexeyBrin 8y ago
> I tried a Hackintosh VM in VirtualBox recently, just to play around, and it was surprisingly easy. I'm sure people (I) will appreciate some links. Thanks.
- funkaster 8y ago
  Here's one that I use: https://github.com/AndrewDryga/vagrant-box-osx/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/AndrewDryga/vagrant-box-osx/blob/master/R...
- flatfilefan 8y ago
  https://techsviewer.com/how-to-install-mac-os-x-el-capitan-on-pc-on-virtualbox/ https://techsviewer.com/how-to-install-mac-os-x-el-capitan-o...
blauditore 8y ago
Yeah, I did it too a while back. I don't remember the details, but some changes on the VM were required. Even if fairly minor, it was quite clear they were necessary solely because MacOS actively checks for those flags and refuses to boot otherwise.