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What I don't get is why those machines are so eager on saving water. The amount of water used costs so much less compared to the electricity (at least here in G

What I don't get is why those machines are so eager on saving water. The amount of water used costs so much less compared to the electricity (at least here in Germany) but on some kinds of load the clothes get barely wet. Making it heat up slower or using more efficient motors would be enough IMO. Or at least add a button that reads "waste a shitload of water". My washer is sitting next to the kitchen sink and I just manually add a huge load of water every time I turn that damn thing on. I installed a faucet with a hose just for that reason.

sandworm101 8y ago
I hate the new machines that weight the laundry before adding the water. I live in BC, Canada, in a literal rain forest. We have more water than we know what to do with. I have relatives who are about to scrap their new machine because it never uses enough water. They run the cycle twice just to ensure the soap is properly rinsed off. And they get their water from a solar-powered well!
jpalomaki 8y ago
Might have something to do with the various eco- and energy efficiency labels [1]. I think they show absolute values for water and energy use, but wash efficiency is rated with letters (and the scale is probably set so that most get the A rating). This might create an incentive to try to push those figure down which need to be shown and just make the machine take more time. If you have already reached the maximum rating for washing quality, there may not be point to improve that at the expense of the other figures. Most of the washing machine purchasing decisions must be based on the marketing fluff. I don't think there are many publications even on EU level which run and publish comprehensive tests for these machines. Without such objective tests, it is pretty much impossible to base the purchasing decision on hard facts (except those mandated to be reported by EU). I remember reading that some washing machines actually did not even obey the request to use high temperatures, because the manufacturer had noticed that they can match the EU target for wash efficiency also with lower temperatures. Can't find any reference for this, so take this with a grain of salt. [1] http://www.topten.eu/uploads/File/130904_Topten_recommendations_Washing_machines.pdf http://www.topten.eu/uploads/File/130904_Topten_recommendati...
drb91 8y ago
Water is finite. Meanwhile you can generally always pay for more electricity. Cape Town will likely be out of water by July 15. High efficiency dryers and washers have their place; just maybe not where water is prevalent.
- ams6110 8y ago
  No it isn't. We're drinking the same water the dinosaurs drank, for the most part.
  - drb91 8y ago
    I’m not sure your point. That doesn’t really help you unless you’re near the water. On a local level, especially across a single year, water levels are finite and exhaustible.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Arguably it ends up being a matter of energy use in either case, either to desalinize it or to carry it from afar. That's usually very expensive, though.
- gambiting 8y ago
  Depends on where you live - in North of England and parts of Scotland the water is so plentiful you don't even get a water meter in your home, you only pay a flat delivery charge each year, but are otherwise free to use as much as you like. In which case, I'm happy to use a program that uses loads of water, but obviously in other locations(Cape Town) the amount used should be restricted. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
  - rahimnathwani 8y ago
    Water may fall from the sky in the North, but it's not rainwater that comes out of the tap at home. The lack of water meters is a legacy thing. Water companies all over the UK (including the North) are trying to migrate consumers away from unmetered tariffs. For example: https://www.nwl.co.uk/your-home/your-account/considering-a-water-meter.aspx https://www.nwl.co.uk/your-home/your-account/considering-a-w... And in case you think the water companies are just as happy if you're on an unmetered tariff: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/water-meters-how-you-forced-13560774 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/water-m...
kalleboo 8y ago
More water is not necessarily better - less water means more agitation https://www.consumerreports.org/washing-machines/yes-your-washing-machine-is-using-enough-water/ https://www.consumerreports.org/washing-machines/yes-your-wa...

sandworm101 8y ago

I hate the new machines that weight the laundry before adding the water. I live in BC, Canada, in a literal rain forest. We have more water than we know what to do with. I have relatives who are about to scrap their new machine because it never uses enough water. They run the cycle twice just to ensure the soap is properly rinsed off. And they get their water from a solar-powered well!

jpalomaki 8y ago

Might have something to do with the various eco- and energy efficiency labels [1]. I think they show absolute values for water and energy use, but wash efficiency is rated with letters (and the scale is probably set so that most get the A rating). This might create an incentive to try to push those figure down which need to be shown and just make the machine take more time. If you have already reached the maximum rating for washing quality, there may not be point to improve that at the expense of the other figures. Most of the washing machine purchasing decisions must be based on the marketing fluff. I don't think there are many publications even on EU level which run and publish comprehensive tests for these machines. Without such objective tests, it is pretty much impossible to base the purchasing decision on hard facts (except those mandated to be reported by EU). I remember reading that some washing machines actually did not even obey the request to use high temperatures, because the manufacturer had noticed that they can match the EU target for wash efficiency also with lower temperatures. Can't find any reference for this, so take this with a grain of salt. [1] http://www.topten.eu/uploads/File/130904_Topten_recommendations_Washing_machines.pdf http://www.topten.eu/uploads/File/130904_Topten_recommendati...

drb91 8y ago

Water is finite. Meanwhile you can generally always pay for more electricity. Cape Town will likely be out of water by July 15. High efficiency dryers and washers have their place; just maybe not where water is prevalent.

ams6110 8y ago
No it isn't. We're drinking the same water the dinosaurs drank, for the most part.
- drb91 8y ago
  I’m not sure your point. That doesn’t really help you unless you’re near the water. On a local level, especially across a single year, water levels are finite and exhaustible.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Arguably it ends up being a matter of energy use in either case, either to desalinize it or to carry it from afar. That's usually very expensive, though.
gambiting 8y ago
Depends on where you live - in North of England and parts of Scotland the water is so plentiful you don't even get a water meter in your home, you only pay a flat delivery charge each year, but are otherwise free to use as much as you like. In which case, I'm happy to use a program that uses loads of water, but obviously in other locations(Cape Town) the amount used should be restricted. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
- rahimnathwani 8y ago
  Water may fall from the sky in the North, but it's not rainwater that comes out of the tap at home. The lack of water meters is a legacy thing. Water companies all over the UK (including the North) are trying to migrate consumers away from unmetered tariffs. For example: https://www.nwl.co.uk/your-home/your-account/considering-a-water-meter.aspx https://www.nwl.co.uk/your-home/your-account/considering-a-w... And in case you think the water companies are just as happy if you're on an unmetered tariff: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/water-meters-how-you-forced-13560774 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/water-m...

kalleboo 8y ago

More water is not necessarily better - less water means more agitation https://www.consumerreports.org/washing-machines/yes-your-washing-machine-is-using-enough-water/ https://www.consumerreports.org/washing-machines/yes-your-wa...