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> Humans naturally gravitate towards tribalism. We're simply not capable to feel connected to every human on planet earth. Human have lots of bad instincts - v

> Humans naturally gravitate towards tribalism. We're simply not capable to feel connected to every human on planet earth. Human have lots of bad instincts - violence, war, hatred, greed, etc etc - but history shows beyond a doubt that we overcome them and it works astoundingly well. But we've overcome those things and built democracies, liberty, a world where violence and war is at historic laws, lifespans are probably double what they were for most of history, women are in the workforce, we walk on the moon, human rights and prosperity have expanded by orders of magnitude. All of that came from the embrace of universal rights and liberty. > We're simply not capable ... In fact, we certainly are! The question is, why would anyone want to take away all that success and ruin it?

mantas 8y ago
> but history shows beyond a doubt that we overcome them and it works astoundingly well Yes, yes, end of history and all that jazz. Yet greed is at all time high. We had a couple attempts at that in 20th century and it didn't went well at all. Hatred and violence are still strong. I'm A lot of things you listed were done in societies that didn't fully embrace liberty/democracy/universal rights. USSR or commie China or Japan or Singapore. Western civilisation that did fully embrace them built their prosperity without any of those things and now just run on their former glory. Walking on the moon was possible specifically because of war effort. > > We're simply not capable ... > In fact, we certainly are! Dunbar number. Anything above that needs a super simple approach to keep people together. Greece crises was a fantastic example. Lots of people were against bail out. Meanwhile they were pissed others don't want to help them too. If fellow europeans don't feel strong connection, I doubt they'd truly feel it for culturally much more different people on the other side of the globe. > The question is, why would anyone want to take away all that success and ruin it? What success? The success to not be able to keep population at replacement levels? Rampant mental illnesses? All that while democracy support is at 50 years low, liberty is in danger and people are too afraid of violence and war to solve any problem? Oh and it's been a while since we were on the moon and it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon...

mantas 8y ago

> but history shows beyond a doubt that we overcome them and it works astoundingly well Yes, yes, end of history and all that jazz. Yet greed is at all time high. We had a couple attempts at that in 20th century and it didn't went well at all. Hatred and violence are still strong. I'm A lot of things you listed were done in societies that didn't fully embrace liberty/democracy/universal rights. USSR or commie China or Japan or Singapore. Western civilisation that did fully embrace them built their prosperity without any of those things and now just run on their former glory. Walking on the moon was possible specifically because of war effort. > > We're simply not capable ... > In fact, we certainly are! Dunbar number. Anything above that needs a super simple approach to keep people together. Greece crises was a fantastic example. Lots of people were against bail out. Meanwhile they were pissed others don't want to help them too. If fellow europeans don't feel strong connection, I doubt they'd truly feel it for culturally much more different people on the other side of the globe. > The question is, why would anyone want to take away all that success and ruin it? What success? The success to not be able to keep population at replacement levels? Rampant mental illnesses? All that while democracy support is at 50 years low, liberty is in danger and people are too afraid of violence and war to solve any problem? Oh and it's been a while since we were on the moon and it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon...