9 ms·

A free XMPP server powered by green energy and hosted in Germany

97 points by stoerfall 8y ago

tehabe 8y ago
The problem with Jabber is, that you are locked in to one server, switching means that you have to re-add all your contacts and so far there is no automatic way to do it. I think the developer of IMCom (console Jabber client) thought about that and how it could work but I don't think his idea got a lot of attention.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  Re-adding contacts is easy. Back in 2006 I used to manually prepare XML for injection into XML console in Psi in order to add all my Gadu-Gadu contacts to XMPP roster using transport. Now things like that can be easily automated thanks to XEP-0144. You could probably use XEP-0321 for it as well.
  - wst_ 8y ago
    Is it a joke? Well, I'll bite. You do understand how cryptic and unbelievably this sounds to common folks? And even if, as a tech person, I could do such kind of magic I simply don't want to. I believe software must be dead simple to use. If it isn't, it means the designers screwed up their job.
    - seba_dos1 8y ago
      This comment wasn't targeted to "common folks", it was targeted to HN readers interested in XMPP. Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that. Others can implement their own in 15 minutes. GP claimed that there's no automated way to do that, I just said that it's wrong. Anyway, you won't be able to migrate your account to another provider at all when using most of other networks, and generally you shouldn't need to do that with XMPP as well (only in rare, special situations), so I really don't think that every user-friendly XMPP client out there needs to provide big fat "MIGRATE MY ROSTER" button.
      - dcbadacd 8y ago
        > Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that This pattern of thought is why it still isn't the year of Linux on the desktop. Black squares containing only text scare people.
      - OoooooooO 8y ago
        > Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that We seem to have quite different views about "common people".
  - SamWhited 8y ago
    It's only easy if servers and clients support those specs; I'm not aware of any that do, but at least they exist. Maybe it's worth updating them and pushing for adoption.
    - seba_dos1 8y ago
      At least Psi and Spectrum do, and I think every major server does. I haven't chosen my clients by support of those XEPs and all of them happen to support at least one, so I suspect that at least one of them will be pretty commonly implemented these days. In fact, to just one-time migrate your roster you don't even need any of them - you just download the roster from one account and push it to another. There are plenty of tools to do that on the Web. XEPs make it easy to keep them synchronized, or to "push" roster from one account to another without having to log in into new account with the tool you want to use.
      - SamWhited 8y ago
        Conversations definitely doesn't, and I don't see it in Psi. Can you provide a link? Maybe I'm just missing something.
- SamWhited 8y ago
  As opposed to what that doesn't lock you in? I'd be curious to see how they do it. With an XMPP compatible account you could at least host with your own domain (by running your own server or using a hosted service like https://account.conversations.im/domain/ https://account.conversations.im/domain/), and then moving isn't too bad. If you fall under GDPR regulations you can presumably ask for a copy of your data now too, and then hand that to whatever your new provider is if you move. That being said, people don't move servers that often, so it doesn't seem like a huge deal either way to me. It could certainly be easier though. Maybe someone should write a spec for that or update one of the older ones?
  - tehabe 8y ago
    Weirdly enough, services like WhatsApp, Signal, or Telegram are more portable. Because the identifier is not owned by the service but is provided by s.o. else. It is essentially a decentralised social graph in the address book of your phone. I'm aware of the caveats though.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- singpolyma3 8y ago
  The "right" way to handle this is as with email: get a domain name, and then use that for your JID. This means you can only use servers that support hosting a custom domain, but at least you can switch servers without changing your address.
- rascul 8y ago
  This isn't a problem I have. Especially if I'm running my own server.
- JepZ 8y ago
  I don't see the dependency on you provider as much as a problem as how you should know which provider will be there in five years. Furthermore, running your own server isn't as easy as it should be. I run my own ejabberd with about 20 users (mostly family) since a few years now, but the configuration still gives me headaches. It is not as complicated as mail server, but still not as easy as providing the domain name and a certificate. Maybe ejabberd is just too powerful for small/simple installations.
  - rascul 8y ago
    Have you looked at Prosody? They try to make it easy to setup and configure. https://prosody.im https://prosody.im
Promarged 8y ago
As far as I've seen there were some problems with hanging Prosody at trashserver.net [0], was this resolved? [0]: https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver in German
- stoerfall 8y ago
  Yes, this is resolved since yesterday. I'm still waiting to make sure it really is fixed ... but no more downtime since 2 days.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
vcpnt51 8y ago
What's good about it being hosted in Germany? The fact that there's no free speech?
- i_am_nomad 8y ago
  You may be getting downvoted for snark and hyperbole, and that wouldn't be unfair, but it might be Germany's exemplary use of renewable energy that makes the host country relevant.
  - sydney6 8y ago
    Share of energy from renewable sources 2004-2016: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Figure_1-Share_of_energy_from_renewable_sources_2004-2016.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?... edit: explanation.
  - vcpnt51 8y ago
    I think I raise a very good point. What good is a chat server if it's censored?
    - amaccuish 8y ago
      I think you mean, in this case, what good is a chat server "if I can't post my third reich gifs?". *I was mainly answering your parent which is now flagged, with the contempt it deserves... :)
    - nothrabannosir 8y ago
      And you’re almost raising it properly, to boot. All you need now is to drop the rhetorical question and add a link to help those unfamiliar with the event you’re referring to, and you’re all set for upvotes. Don’t forget to frame it like a question and emphasise your neutrality: “This does seem impressive from a technological standpoint, and I fully support the initiative. However, is anyone else reminded of The Event on Day X?[0][1] I would wager this does put a damper on the credibility of this entire project. Or am I wrong?” [0] putin.ru/i-am-right [1] google Seriously, though. Rhetorical questions and vague references may work well in person but they carry over very poorly on an Internet forum. Please, just get to the point. (P.s. I’d be lying if I said this isn’t basically how I actually post here)
ovrdrv3 8y ago
>Efficient and environmentally friendly air conditioning technology contributes to environmental protection in the data center. Speaking of environmentally friendly AC methods, I always found it fascinating and simple yet genius when I read the news that facebook has some data centers in very cold parts of the world. Edit: Here's a little gallery of their data center in northern Sweden: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10103136694875121 https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10103136694875121
- sametmax 8y ago
  That's neat. Only economically possible when things get to the scale of facebook or google, but really neat.
rascul 8y ago
Still waiting on a decent Android client (preferably open source) which does text, voice, and video. Without that, XMPP is effectively dead for me nowadays. Otherwise I'll never be able to get my friends off of Facebook Messenger.
- flattone 8y ago
  Woah. Friends on FB messenger sounds like lost friends. :( Sorry to hear.
  - rascul 8y ago
    Lost friends? I don't understand what you're referring to.
    - FungalRaincloud 8y ago
      I think he is implying that he would personally never use FB messenger, so he would not be able to maintain contact with those friends.
      - rascul 8y ago
        My goal is to leave Facebook Messenger completely, but I'm not going to do that until I can get something setup to replace it that my friends will use.
        seba_dos1 8y ago
        I have set up a Spectrum transport and now I use Messenger with XMPP client, gradually migrating some contacts from the transport to native XMPP :)
        rascul 8y ago
        Interesting idea, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem of a missing Android XMPP app that does video and voice.
gcb0 8y ago
why is this trending? is xmpp relevant again? did they solve federation issues or is everyone in their own bubble still?
- SamWhited 8y ago
  What federation issues?

97 points by stoerfall 8y ago

The problem with Jabber is, that you are locked in to one server, switching means that you have to re-add all your contacts and so far there is no automatic way to do it. I think the developer of IMCom (console Jabber client) thought about that and how it could work but I don't think his idea got a lot of attention.

seba_dos1 8y ago
Re-adding contacts is easy. Back in 2006 I used to manually prepare XML for injection into XML console in Psi in order to add all my Gadu-Gadu contacts to XMPP roster using transport. Now things like that can be easily automated thanks to XEP-0144. You could probably use XEP-0321 for it as well.
- wst_ 8y ago
  Is it a joke? Well, I'll bite. You do understand how cryptic and unbelievably this sounds to common folks? And even if, as a tech person, I could do such kind of magic I simply don't want to. I believe software must be dead simple to use. If it isn't, it means the designers screwed up their job.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    This comment wasn't targeted to "common folks", it was targeted to HN readers interested in XMPP. Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that. Others can implement their own in 15 minutes. GP claimed that there's no automated way to do that, I just said that it's wrong. Anyway, you won't be able to migrate your account to another provider at all when using most of other networks, and generally you shouldn't need to do that with XMPP as well (only in rare, special situations), so I really don't think that every user-friendly XMPP client out there needs to provide big fat "MIGRATE MY ROSTER" button.
    - dcbadacd 8y ago
      > Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that This pattern of thought is why it still isn't the year of Linux on the desktop. Black squares containing only text scare people.
    - OoooooooO 8y ago
      > Common folks can use Google/DuckDuckGo and find one of the readily available scripts that already do that We seem to have quite different views about "common people".
- SamWhited 8y ago
  It's only easy if servers and clients support those specs; I'm not aware of any that do, but at least they exist. Maybe it's worth updating them and pushing for adoption.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    At least Psi and Spectrum do, and I think every major server does. I haven't chosen my clients by support of those XEPs and all of them happen to support at least one, so I suspect that at least one of them will be pretty commonly implemented these days. In fact, to just one-time migrate your roster you don't even need any of them - you just download the roster from one account and push it to another. There are plenty of tools to do that on the Web. XEPs make it easy to keep them synchronized, or to "push" roster from one account to another without having to log in into new account with the tool you want to use.
    - SamWhited 8y ago
      Conversations definitely doesn't, and I don't see it in Psi. Can you provide a link? Maybe I'm just missing something.
SamWhited 8y ago
As opposed to what that doesn't lock you in? I'd be curious to see how they do it. With an XMPP compatible account you could at least host with your own domain (by running your own server or using a hosted service like https://account.conversations.im/domain/ https://account.conversations.im/domain/), and then moving isn't too bad. If you fall under GDPR regulations you can presumably ask for a copy of your data now too, and then hand that to whatever your new provider is if you move. That being said, people don't move servers that often, so it doesn't seem like a huge deal either way to me. It could certainly be easier though. Maybe someone should write a spec for that or update one of the older ones?
- tehabe 8y ago
  Weirdly enough, services like WhatsApp, Signal, or Telegram are more portable. Because the identifier is not owned by the service but is provided by s.o. else. It is essentially a decentralised social graph in the address book of your phone. I'm aware of the caveats though.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
singpolyma3 8y ago
The "right" way to handle this is as with email: get a domain name, and then use that for your JID. This means you can only use servers that support hosting a custom domain, but at least you can switch servers without changing your address.
rascul 8y ago
This isn't a problem I have. Especially if I'm running my own server.
JepZ 8y ago
I don't see the dependency on you provider as much as a problem as how you should know which provider will be there in five years. Furthermore, running your own server isn't as easy as it should be. I run my own ejabberd with about 20 users (mostly family) since a few years now, but the configuration still gives me headaches. It is not as complicated as mail server, but still not as easy as providing the domain name and a certificate. Maybe ejabberd is just too powerful for small/simple installations.
- rascul 8y ago
  Have you looked at Prosody? They try to make it easy to setup and configure. https://prosody.im https://prosody.im

Promarged 8y ago

As far as I've seen there were some problems with hanging Prosody at trashserver.net [0], was this resolved? [0]: https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver in German

stoerfall 8y ago
Yes, this is resolved since yesterday. I'm still waiting to make sure it really is fixed ... but no more downtime since 2 days.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

vcpnt51 8y ago

What's good about it being hosted in Germany? The fact that there's no free speech?

i_am_nomad 8y ago
You may be getting downvoted for snark and hyperbole, and that wouldn't be unfair, but it might be Germany's exemplary use of renewable energy that makes the host country relevant.
- sydney6 8y ago
  Share of energy from renewable sources 2004-2016: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Figure_1-Share_of_energy_from_renewable_sources_2004-2016.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?... edit: explanation.
- vcpnt51 8y ago
  I think I raise a very good point. What good is a chat server if it's censored?
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    I think you mean, in this case, what good is a chat server "if I can't post my third reich gifs?". *I was mainly answering your parent which is now flagged, with the contempt it deserves... :)
  - nothrabannosir 8y ago
    And you’re almost raising it properly, to boot. All you need now is to drop the rhetorical question and add a link to help those unfamiliar with the event you’re referring to, and you’re all set for upvotes. Don’t forget to frame it like a question and emphasise your neutrality: “This does seem impressive from a technological standpoint, and I fully support the initiative. However, is anyone else reminded of The Event on Day X?[0][1] I would wager this does put a damper on the credibility of this entire project. Or am I wrong?” [0] putin.ru/i-am-right [1] google Seriously, though. Rhetorical questions and vague references may work well in person but they carry over very poorly on an Internet forum. Please, just get to the point. (P.s. I’d be lying if I said this isn’t basically how I actually post here)

ovrdrv3 8y ago

>Efficient and environmentally friendly air conditioning technology contributes to environmental protection in the data center. Speaking of environmentally friendly AC methods, I always found it fascinating and simple yet genius when I read the news that facebook has some data centers in very cold parts of the world. Edit: Here's a little gallery of their data center in northern Sweden: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10103136694875121 https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10103136694875121

sametmax 8y ago
That's neat. Only economically possible when things get to the scale of facebook or google, but really neat.

rascul 8y ago

Still waiting on a decent Android client (preferably open source) which does text, voice, and video. Without that, XMPP is effectively dead for me nowadays. Otherwise I'll never be able to get my friends off of Facebook Messenger.

flattone 8y ago
Woah. Friends on FB messenger sounds like lost friends. :( Sorry to hear.
- rascul 8y ago
  Lost friends? I don't understand what you're referring to.
  - FungalRaincloud 8y ago
    I think he is implying that he would personally never use FB messenger, so he would not be able to maintain contact with those friends.
    - rascul 8y ago
      My goal is to leave Facebook Messenger completely, but I'm not going to do that until I can get something setup to replace it that my friends will use.
      - seba_dos1 8y ago
        I have set up a Spectrum transport and now I use Messenger with XMPP client, gradually migrating some contacts from the transport to native XMPP :)
        rascul 8y ago
        Interesting idea, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem of a missing Android XMPP app that does video and voice.

gcb0 8y ago

why is this trending? is xmpp relevant again? did they solve federation issues or is everyone in their own bubble still?

SamWhited 8y ago
What federation issues?