5 ms·

I think recruiters should actually start giving a shit about the lives of engineers before making demands. - Actually try to get to know and understand a perso

I think recruiters should actually start giving a shit about the lives of engineers before making demands. - Actually try to get to know and understand a person - Dont use fill-in templates - Have some actual knowledge of tech (java != .net) - Dont make offerings for positions I worked on 10 years ago during college. - Dont be greedy. To just name a few...

jjjensen90 8y ago
I would add to that: - Don't try to recruit me for the company I work for - Don't constantly ask me for referrals for a $500 bonus from your $20k fee
- t1o5 8y ago
  - And don't ask me if I know "Tomcat programming language"
  - coldcode 8y ago
    I would like to here what they say when you say yes.
    - t1o5 8y ago
      The recruiter said 'I will get back soon' after when I told 'Tomcat is not a programming language'. I never heard from that recruiter again.
sparrish 8y ago
You're thinking of "professional recruiters". The ones listed here are just the technical hiring managers at their companies saying what they look for.
lynnetye 8y ago
To be completely honest, I also felt a lot of frustration towards recruiters when I first started working on Key Values. (It might be one of the reasons why I built it...) In the last year though, I've met a wide variety of people with a wide variety of responsibilities, approaches, and backgrounds, yet they all share the same job title. There are certainly awful recruiters out there, but there are also some really fantastic ones! (Just like how there are both awful and fantastic devs out there.) I've gotten to see both sides of job searching/hiring and it has been eye opening. Both sides have similar complaints of the other, which is why the process looks so darn similar to dating. My guess is that founders, CTOs, and recruiters would all probably make a list similar to yours: - Actually try to get to know and understand our company - Don't use fill-in templates - Have some actual knowledge of our industry/product - Don't focus on positions you worked on 10 years ago during college - Don't be greedy
- learc83 8y ago
  >Don't be greedy That is hilarious. If the representative of a multi-billion dollar company (or a startup trying to become a multi-billion dollar company) every said something like that to me I'd probably laugh and walk out.
  - lynnetye 8y ago
    I don't think many candidates tell the recruiter they're working with to be less greedy, nor do many employers tell candidates this. My point is that there's an extremely wide range of scenarios that both parties see, and most people on one side of it have a hard time considering the perspective of the other. There are plenty of young software engineers who hear about first-year salaries at Google and expect similar comp packages from startups. (Are they being too greedy? Meh, they're just misinformed or need to take some time to recalibrate their expectations.) There are also plenty of companies guilty of the same thing. Their expectations are too high as they turn away great candidates because they don't have a CS degree from a top school or have an impressive track record of open source contributions. The OP listed "don't be greedy," which sounds familiar to me. It's easy to have a few bad experiences and then draw a blanket conclusion that every tech company is trying to squeeze me. My point is only that it's frustrating on both sides, and whether you're an applicant or a hiring manager, understanding what the process feels like to the other party will make the process that much easier for you.
    - ummonk 8y ago
      >There are plenty of young software engineers who hear about first-year salaries at Google and expect similar comp packages from startups. (Are they being too greedy? Meh, they're just misinformed or need to take some time to recalibrate their expectations.) If they're choosing between working at a company like Google or that startup, it's not greedy to expect competitive compensation.
      - repolfx 8y ago
        I think it was implied by context that they weren't. Obviously if you need advice of "don't be greedy" then such a person isn't simultaneously weighing up an offer from the top of Google's pay tier, otherwise that wouldn't be greed, it'd just be realism.
appstateguy 8y ago
I worked with a recruiter once and the way she treated me like an object to sling around to make her commission turned me off to the entire recruiting industry. I refuse to work with them again.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  I prefer this treatment, because at least it feels honest to me. When a recruiter tries to pretend we're friends it really makes my skin crawl.
slx26 8y ago
Yes. Sadly, in business the concept of "ethics" seems to only ever apply as jargon for marketing and PR. Hello world, we are humans, not products.
FLUX-YOU 8y ago
Literally in my linkedin messages right now: "Hi we're looking for a python/clojure/go/dart/react senior developer. We need 5 years of experience and a college degree in CS" "I have none of those but forward my resume if you think I'd be a good fit" "Alright, I'll get your resume over to them ASAP!" Several days later "Sorry, they said you wouldn't be a good fit" No fucking shit, I am shocked
- dabockster 8y ago
  Even better is when they try to forward your resume and come back with "Sorry, but the manager wants X years of experience that they didn't list in the job description for whatever reason". FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
- mkirklions 8y ago
  >we're looking for a python/clojure/go/dart/react senior developer Tbh, most people dont even need an expert or senior developer. Unless you are expected to pick up everything within 1 week, its easy enough to learn a language or reverse engineer old code with enough time. I find this the most annoying thing in programming. Does HR not realize that once you can program, you can program?
  - john_moscow 8y ago
    HR first and foremost needs to justify their own existence to the company they work for. And the easiest way of doing that is basically showing how they look through hundreds of candidates only to find those rare ones with the correct buzzword in the CV.
    - carlmr 8y ago
      If they only found the rare ones that are competent and nice to work with instead.
  - sidlls 8y ago
    What makes you think it's HR with those absurd requirements? Some places have very rigid tech stacks and aren't interested in new hires taking even a short amount of time to learn the basics of a new language or framework. (I wouldn't necessarily want to work at such a place, just saying they exist.)
robohoe 8y ago
And don't go around me and change my resume without telling me.
- FLUX-YOU 8y ago
  That should be illegal. Especially if it's contract/contract-to-hire.
- mrlyc 8y ago
  That happened to me when I went for a job at Wang to work on Australia's EFTPOS network. The position required using protocol analysers but the recruiter had removed all references to them from my résumé. I gave the interviewer my original résumé and got the job.
bitwize 8y ago
Excuse me, are you paying the recruiter to find you a job? No? Then, as they say, you're not the customer; you're the product.
commandlinefan 8y ago
> recruiters should actually start giving a shit about the lives of engineers Well, in their defense, they're almost definitely recruiting for an organization that doesn't, so it would almost be dishonest if they themselves presented a facade of caring much one way or the other beyond their own quarterly sales commissions.

jjjensen90 8y ago

I would add to that: - Don't try to recruit me for the company I work for - Don't constantly ask me for referrals for a $500 bonus from your $20k fee

t1o5 8y ago
- And don't ask me if I know "Tomcat programming language"
- coldcode 8y ago
  I would like to here what they say when you say yes.
  - t1o5 8y ago
    The recruiter said 'I will get back soon' after when I told 'Tomcat is not a programming language'. I never heard from that recruiter again.

sparrish 8y ago

You're thinking of "professional recruiters". The ones listed here are just the technical hiring managers at their companies saying what they look for.

lynnetye 8y ago

To be completely honest, I also felt a lot of frustration towards recruiters when I first started working on Key Values. (It might be one of the reasons why I built it...) In the last year though, I've met a wide variety of people with a wide variety of responsibilities, approaches, and backgrounds, yet they all share the same job title. There are certainly awful recruiters out there, but there are also some really fantastic ones! (Just like how there are both awful and fantastic devs out there.) I've gotten to see both sides of job searching/hiring and it has been eye opening. Both sides have similar complaints of the other, which is why the process looks so darn similar to dating. My guess is that founders, CTOs, and recruiters would all probably make a list similar to yours: - Actually try to get to know and understand our company - Don't use fill-in templates - Have some actual knowledge of our industry/product - Don't focus on positions you worked on 10 years ago during college - Don't be greedy

learc83 8y ago
>Don't be greedy That is hilarious. If the representative of a multi-billion dollar company (or a startup trying to become a multi-billion dollar company) every said something like that to me I'd probably laugh and walk out.
- lynnetye 8y ago
  I don't think many candidates tell the recruiter they're working with to be less greedy, nor do many employers tell candidates this. My point is that there's an extremely wide range of scenarios that both parties see, and most people on one side of it have a hard time considering the perspective of the other. There are plenty of young software engineers who hear about first-year salaries at Google and expect similar comp packages from startups. (Are they being too greedy? Meh, they're just misinformed or need to take some time to recalibrate their expectations.) There are also plenty of companies guilty of the same thing. Their expectations are too high as they turn away great candidates because they don't have a CS degree from a top school or have an impressive track record of open source contributions. The OP listed "don't be greedy," which sounds familiar to me. It's easy to have a few bad experiences and then draw a blanket conclusion that every tech company is trying to squeeze me. My point is only that it's frustrating on both sides, and whether you're an applicant or a hiring manager, understanding what the process feels like to the other party will make the process that much easier for you.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    >There are plenty of young software engineers who hear about first-year salaries at Google and expect similar comp packages from startups. (Are they being too greedy? Meh, they're just misinformed or need to take some time to recalibrate their expectations.) If they're choosing between working at a company like Google or that startup, it's not greedy to expect competitive compensation.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      I think it was implied by context that they weren't. Obviously if you need advice of "don't be greedy" then such a person isn't simultaneously weighing up an offer from the top of Google's pay tier, otherwise that wouldn't be greed, it'd just be realism.

appstateguy 8y ago

I worked with a recruiter once and the way she treated me like an object to sling around to make her commission turned me off to the entire recruiting industry. I refuse to work with them again.

Consultant32452 8y ago
I prefer this treatment, because at least it feels honest to me. When a recruiter tries to pretend we're friends it really makes my skin crawl.

slx26 8y ago

Yes. Sadly, in business the concept of "ethics" seems to only ever apply as jargon for marketing and PR. Hello world, we are humans, not products.

FLUX-YOU 8y ago

Literally in my linkedin messages right now: "Hi we're looking for a python/clojure/go/dart/react senior developer. We need 5 years of experience and a college degree in CS" "I have none of those but forward my resume if you think I'd be a good fit" "Alright, I'll get your resume over to them ASAP!" Several days later "Sorry, they said you wouldn't be a good fit" No fucking shit, I am shocked

dabockster 8y ago
Even better is when they try to forward your resume and come back with "Sorry, but the manager wants X years of experience that they didn't list in the job description for whatever reason". FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
mkirklions 8y ago
>we're looking for a python/clojure/go/dart/react senior developer Tbh, most people dont even need an expert or senior developer. Unless you are expected to pick up everything within 1 week, its easy enough to learn a language or reverse engineer old code with enough time. I find this the most annoying thing in programming. Does HR not realize that once you can program, you can program?
- john_moscow 8y ago
  HR first and foremost needs to justify their own existence to the company they work for. And the easiest way of doing that is basically showing how they look through hundreds of candidates only to find those rare ones with the correct buzzword in the CV.
  - carlmr 8y ago
    If they only found the rare ones that are competent and nice to work with instead.
- sidlls 8y ago
  What makes you think it's HR with those absurd requirements? Some places have very rigid tech stacks and aren't interested in new hires taking even a short amount of time to learn the basics of a new language or framework. (I wouldn't necessarily want to work at such a place, just saying they exist.)

robohoe 8y ago

And don't go around me and change my resume without telling me.

FLUX-YOU 8y ago
That should be illegal. Especially if it's contract/contract-to-hire.
mrlyc 8y ago
That happened to me when I went for a job at Wang to work on Australia's EFTPOS network. The position required using protocol analysers but the recruiter had removed all references to them from my résumé. I gave the interviewer my original résumé and got the job.

bitwize 8y ago

Excuse me, are you paying the recruiter to find you a job? No? Then, as they say, you're not the customer; you're the product.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> recruiters should actually start giving a shit about the lives of engineers Well, in their defense, they're almost definitely recruiting for an organization that doesn't, so it would almost be dishonest if they themselves presented a facade of caring much one way or the other beyond their own quarterly sales commissions.