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We ship most of our "recycling" to Asia and smugly pat ourselves on the back that we are saving the world. It would not surprise me that the original source of

We ship most of our "recycling" to Asia and smugly pat ourselves on the back that we are saving the world. It would not surprise me that the original source of a significant portion of the plastics in the oceans are domestic recycling programs.

pathseeker 8y ago
That doesn't excuse the behavior of them turning around and dumping it in the ocean.
chillydawg 8y ago
China banned foreign trash imports recently. That whole merry go round is coming to an end.
- protonfish 8y ago
  Yes, so we are shipping our garbage to other countries now.
  - jhowell 8y ago
    Looking at you continent of Africa...
  - carapace 8y ago
    We aren't forcing it on anybody. They buy it, ship it, and make $$$. "Junkyard Planet, Travels in the Billion-Dollar Trash Trade" by Adam Minter > Minter traces the export of America's recyclables and the massive profits that China and other rising nations earn from it. What emerges is an engaging, colorful, and sometimes troubling tale of consumption, innovation, and the ascent of a developing world that recognizes value where Americans don't. https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/junkyard-planet-9781608197910/ https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/junkyard-planet-9781608197910/
  - acct1771 8y ago
    There's at least one nation that gets most, if not all, of their power from burning other nation's trash. Having a hard time remembering which, perhaps a Scandinavian country.
    - Moru 8y ago
      Sweden has since a long time been working on building out central heating for whole cities, connected to garbage/oil/electricity plants (with good filtering of gases). While doing this network of hot water pipes all over the place we also put down fiber so on top of it we have access to minimum 100 Mbps internet almost everywhere, even out in the northern forests. Our small town was doing this already 20 years ago, only 3000-odd inhabitants. Now we live in a bigger town and this area was built already new with central heating from the power plants about 15 years ago. Garbage dumps have mostly been closed down and we recycle and compost what we can't burn. We also import garbage from our neighbors to burn. Handling our old dump sites is a problem still though, a lot of toxins there.
jhowell 8y ago
Aren't we just sending it back? If it was important, perhaps rather than not accepting the garbage, China could use their resources to guide the progression of the problem. I am aware that the Chinese didn't create this problem, but they are definitely in a position to do something about it and arguably have the most to lose given the size of the population.
newswriter99 8y ago
No we don't. China just imposed a waste import ban. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164821-waste-management-effects-chinas-recycling-import-ban https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164821-waste-management-ef... What gets me is the smugness of the "green movement" in that they are perfectly fine with ignoring facts such as the energy intensiveness to manufacture wind turbines and solar panels https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/1411... And they also conveniently ignore the fact that without the plastics industry, the average quality of life for the average human would be far lower than it is now. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791860/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791860/ Top it all off, imagine the resources that would get used if the world stopped using plastic and went back to 100% paper, cotton, and glass. That's a lot of trees, plant material and sand. The first two would lead to an increase in fertilizers, which would lead to an increase in chemical runoff. I'm not trying to shill the plastics industry here, I'm just saying that the green movement is rife with bias and hypocrisy, and the situation is far more complicated than anyone give it credit for.
- symmitchry 8y ago
  > No we don't. China just imposed a waste import ban. JUST imposed. If you follow any municipal news (Australia, Canada, who knows where else) you'll know that the RECENT ban is causing huge issues.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Plastic is also a much lighter packaging material than glass or metal. So a substantial amount of fuel is saved in transportation of goods to retail outlets.
  - Moru 8y ago
    Transportation of other plastic items we didn't need in the first place. A lot of the food we eat didn't have to be packed in plastic if it was stored properly and taken care of. If we cooked our own food more than we do, even more plastic could be left for other usage instead. While we are on the topic we don't need to actually eat as much as we do. We don't have to supersize every portion, we can survive and probably be healthier on a much lower portion per meal.
ams6110 8y ago
I used to hear that quite a large portion of plastic that you think you are "recycling" is in fact simply landfilled because there is no market for it. Not sure that is still the case; hopefully it has improved in recent years.
- liveoneggs 8y ago
  it depends on the price of oil
- lozenge 8y ago
  Recycling should really be called downcycling. With plastic as with paper, the quality of the recycled product is lower than the original, unless enough new material is mixed in.
- strainer 8y ago
  Landfill sites amount to a very small portion of overall land usage of human industry. Beyond making sure reusable and affordably recyclable stuff is not being wasted, the wider environment is not improved or significantly relieved by expensive efforts to reduce landfill. The immediate environmental action priorities should surely be: - Taking waste out of habitat ( collection and filtration ) - Reducing waste going into habitat ( biodegradable material use, design re-usability and reliability, affordable recycling ) - Study and assist heavily disrupted natural systems. We don't have to be able to reprocess all of the waste collected since there is relative space to simply store it while we work on the technology and clean energy supply to make it reusable. I believe advanced landfill as a long term waste curing and storage ability should be considered a big part of urgent clean industry and not characterised as a major problem in itself.

pathseeker 8y ago

That doesn't excuse the behavior of them turning around and dumping it in the ocean.

chillydawg 8y ago

China banned foreign trash imports recently. That whole merry go round is coming to an end.

protonfish 8y ago
Yes, so we are shipping our garbage to other countries now.
- jhowell 8y ago
  Looking at you continent of Africa...
- carapace 8y ago
  We aren't forcing it on anybody. They buy it, ship it, and make $$$. "Junkyard Planet, Travels in the Billion-Dollar Trash Trade" by Adam Minter > Minter traces the export of America's recyclables and the massive profits that China and other rising nations earn from it. What emerges is an engaging, colorful, and sometimes troubling tale of consumption, innovation, and the ascent of a developing world that recognizes value where Americans don't. https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/junkyard-planet-9781608197910/ https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/junkyard-planet-9781608197910/
- acct1771 8y ago
  There's at least one nation that gets most, if not all, of their power from burning other nation's trash. Having a hard time remembering which, perhaps a Scandinavian country.
  - Moru 8y ago
    Sweden has since a long time been working on building out central heating for whole cities, connected to garbage/oil/electricity plants (with good filtering of gases). While doing this network of hot water pipes all over the place we also put down fiber so on top of it we have access to minimum 100 Mbps internet almost everywhere, even out in the northern forests. Our small town was doing this already 20 years ago, only 3000-odd inhabitants. Now we live in a bigger town and this area was built already new with central heating from the power plants about 15 years ago. Garbage dumps have mostly been closed down and we recycle and compost what we can't burn. We also import garbage from our neighbors to burn. Handling our old dump sites is a problem still though, a lot of toxins there.

jhowell 8y ago

Aren't we just sending it back? If it was important, perhaps rather than not accepting the garbage, China could use their resources to guide the progression of the problem. I am aware that the Chinese didn't create this problem, but they are definitely in a position to do something about it and arguably have the most to lose given the size of the population.

newswriter99 8y ago

No we don't. China just imposed a waste import ban. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164821-waste-management-effects-chinas-recycling-import-ban https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164821-waste-management-ef... What gets me is the smugness of the "green movement" in that they are perfectly fine with ignoring facts such as the energy intensiveness to manufacture wind turbines and solar panels https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/1411... And they also conveniently ignore the fact that without the plastics industry, the average quality of life for the average human would be far lower than it is now. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791860/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791860/ Top it all off, imagine the resources that would get used if the world stopped using plastic and went back to 100% paper, cotton, and glass. That's a lot of trees, plant material and sand. The first two would lead to an increase in fertilizers, which would lead to an increase in chemical runoff. I'm not trying to shill the plastics industry here, I'm just saying that the green movement is rife with bias and hypocrisy, and the situation is far more complicated than anyone give it credit for.

symmitchry 8y ago
> No we don't. China just imposed a waste import ban. JUST imposed. If you follow any municipal news (Australia, Canada, who knows where else) you'll know that the RECENT ban is causing huge issues.
ams6110 8y ago
Plastic is also a much lighter packaging material than glass or metal. So a substantial amount of fuel is saved in transportation of goods to retail outlets.
- Moru 8y ago
  Transportation of other plastic items we didn't need in the first place. A lot of the food we eat didn't have to be packed in plastic if it was stored properly and taken care of. If we cooked our own food more than we do, even more plastic could be left for other usage instead. While we are on the topic we don't need to actually eat as much as we do. We don't have to supersize every portion, we can survive and probably be healthier on a much lower portion per meal.

ams6110 8y ago

I used to hear that quite a large portion of plastic that you think you are "recycling" is in fact simply landfilled because there is no market for it. Not sure that is still the case; hopefully it has improved in recent years.

liveoneggs 8y ago
it depends on the price of oil
lozenge 8y ago
Recycling should really be called downcycling. With plastic as with paper, the quality of the recycled product is lower than the original, unless enough new material is mixed in.
strainer 8y ago
Landfill sites amount to a very small portion of overall land usage of human industry. Beyond making sure reusable and affordably recyclable stuff is not being wasted, the wider environment is not improved or significantly relieved by expensive efforts to reduce landfill. The immediate environmental action priorities should surely be: - Taking waste out of habitat ( collection and filtration ) - Reducing waste going into habitat ( biodegradable material use, design re-usability and reliability, affordable recycling ) - Study and assist heavily disrupted natural systems. We don't have to be able to reprocess all of the waste collected since there is relative space to simply store it while we work on the technology and clean energy supply to make it reusable. I believe advanced landfill as a long term waste curing and storage ability should be considered a big part of urgent clean industry and not characterised as a major problem in itself.