5 ms·

- the point isn't to save money or reduce crime, it's to punish the bad people. I mean, if we stop thinking of them as bad people, how am I supposed to know tha

- the point isn't to save money or reduce crime, it's to punish the bad people. I mean, if we stop thinking of them as bad people, how am I supposed to know that I'm a good person You would think the recent examples of Meek Mill and Khalif Browder would open eyes to the fact there are a ton of people in jail because they either can't afford bail or for minor infractions.

mabbo 8y ago
There's a disturbing deeper reasoning, one that I like to acknowledge: double predestination Calvinism. In certain forms of Christianity, you are born as either "good" or "bad". You are just intrinsically this way. You can tell which you are based on whether God grants you a good or bad life. Get arrested unjustly, wrongly convicted, or too poor to bail yourself out? Well maybe that's just because you were one of the bad people. Rich and successful? Clearly proof that you belong in heaven. Now, even most Christians see this as horse shit. But the deep seeds of this reasoning are everywhere in Western culture, hints here and there. Harry Potter is my favorite example- that sorting hat, man, it's never put a bad person into Griffindor, has it? (I haven't read the books in years, so go ahead and remind me about that one time it did...). This is the kind of thing that leads to hidden biases, sort of like unconscious racial or gender biases. And like those other two examples, there are people who 100% believe that it's true, right, etc. Edit: removing a clause that didn't make sense.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  Peter Pettigrew was a Gryffindor. The "prosperity gospel" people make me ill. It's almost the exact opposite of Christianity, in my opinion. The combination of black-white morality and a belief that some divine agency guides the fortunes of mortal humans results in a twisted view, wherein bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to good people. If a bad thing happens to a good person, well they must have done something sinful to deserve it. It's just sick. People like that always blame the victim.
  - danShumway 8y ago
    Agreed; it's completely anti-biblical. This is explicitly addressed in John 9, that sometimes bad things happen to people and it's not because they're evil or because they deserve it. Arguably one of the most important central tennants of Christianity is "you are not a good person, you don't deserve grace any more than anybody else does, and God loves you in spite of that." Yet somehow there are huge portions of Christianity that take the complete opposite lesson. It's like if there was a sect of the Open Source movement that went around telling people "the best thing about Open Source is that nobody can use your software unless you give them permission."
    - qbrass 8y ago
      Christ was convicted of heresy and executed for his crime. >It's like if there was a sect of the Open Source movement that went around telling people "the best thing about Open Source is that nobody can use your software unless you give them permission." Richard Stallman's main gripe about Open Source software vs Free software is that it only grants you permission to view and modify the source, and doesn't necessarily grant you permission to use the software. Most open source licenses also grant you usage rights, but they don't technically have to.
  - Y_Y 8y ago
    I agree that it's the opposite of Christianity, at least in that in the RCC catechism good things happen to bad people and vice-versa, at least here on earth. The books get balanced in the hereafter. That's why the meek will inherit the earth and the rich enter heaven only by pushing camels through needles
- organsnyder 8y ago
  Not only is this a perversion of Christianity, but it's also a perversion of Calvinism. (not arguing against your point, but of the people that hold these views)
  - lisper 8y ago
    This is the problem with all religion: the people who adhere to these views think that your views are perversions of Christianity (or Islam or whatever) and there is no way to resolve such disputes except to see who can shout the loudest, or who can obtain the most political power so that they can use the power of the state to suppress dissent. Ironically, Christianity itself is the product of this dynamic.
thucydidesofusa 8y ago
Jails and prisons offer civilized society a way to deal with people who cannot or will not participate in it. Meek Mill is exactly the sort of person who should be locked up - he's violated every probation and parole agreement he's signed. There's a simple way for the wealthy to get through probation and parole - keep your head down, live a normal life, and don't rock the boat. I'm not saying that everyone has to do that, but people who cannot keep their heads down against the threat of imprisonment aren't people who can function in society.

mabbo 8y ago

There's a disturbing deeper reasoning, one that I like to acknowledge: double predestination Calvinism. In certain forms of Christianity, you are born as either "good" or "bad". You are just intrinsically this way. You can tell which you are based on whether God grants you a good or bad life. Get arrested unjustly, wrongly convicted, or too poor to bail yourself out? Well maybe that's just because you were one of the bad people. Rich and successful? Clearly proof that you belong in heaven. Now, even most Christians see this as horse shit. But the deep seeds of this reasoning are everywhere in Western culture, hints here and there. Harry Potter is my favorite example- that sorting hat, man, it's never put a bad person into Griffindor, has it? (I haven't read the books in years, so go ahead and remind me about that one time it did...). This is the kind of thing that leads to hidden biases, sort of like unconscious racial or gender biases. And like those other two examples, there are people who 100% believe that it's true, right, etc. Edit: removing a clause that didn't make sense.

logfromblammo 8y ago
Peter Pettigrew was a Gryffindor. The "prosperity gospel" people make me ill. It's almost the exact opposite of Christianity, in my opinion. The combination of black-white morality and a belief that some divine agency guides the fortunes of mortal humans results in a twisted view, wherein bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to good people. If a bad thing happens to a good person, well they must have done something sinful to deserve it. It's just sick. People like that always blame the victim.
- danShumway 8y ago
  Agreed; it's completely anti-biblical. This is explicitly addressed in John 9, that sometimes bad things happen to people and it's not because they're evil or because they deserve it. Arguably one of the most important central tennants of Christianity is "you are not a good person, you don't deserve grace any more than anybody else does, and God loves you in spite of that." Yet somehow there are huge portions of Christianity that take the complete opposite lesson. It's like if there was a sect of the Open Source movement that went around telling people "the best thing about Open Source is that nobody can use your software unless you give them permission."
  - qbrass 8y ago
    Christ was convicted of heresy and executed for his crime. >It's like if there was a sect of the Open Source movement that went around telling people "the best thing about Open Source is that nobody can use your software unless you give them permission." Richard Stallman's main gripe about Open Source software vs Free software is that it only grants you permission to view and modify the source, and doesn't necessarily grant you permission to use the software. Most open source licenses also grant you usage rights, but they don't technically have to.
- Y_Y 8y ago
  I agree that it's the opposite of Christianity, at least in that in the RCC catechism good things happen to bad people and vice-versa, at least here on earth. The books get balanced in the hereafter. That's why the meek will inherit the earth and the rich enter heaven only by pushing camels through needles
organsnyder 8y ago
Not only is this a perversion of Christianity, but it's also a perversion of Calvinism. (not arguing against your point, but of the people that hold these views)
- lisper 8y ago
  This is the problem with all religion: the people who adhere to these views think that your views are perversions of Christianity (or Islam or whatever) and there is no way to resolve such disputes except to see who can shout the loudest, or who can obtain the most political power so that they can use the power of the state to suppress dissent. Ironically, Christianity itself is the product of this dynamic.

thucydidesofusa 8y ago

Jails and prisons offer civilized society a way to deal with people who cannot or will not participate in it. Meek Mill is exactly the sort of person who should be locked up - he's violated every probation and parole agreement he's signed. There's a simple way for the wealthy to get through probation and parole - keep your head down, live a normal life, and don't rock the boat. I'm not saying that everyone has to do that, but people who cannot keep their heads down against the threat of imprisonment aren't people who can function in society.