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If alphabet is the one with the machine learning contract with the government, at least they can run it conscientiously. Other companies and employees might not

If alphabet is the one with the machine learning contract with the government, at least they can run it conscientiously. Other companies and employees might not care about ethics as much; would these Google employees regret not having some control over this process?

emodendroket 8y ago
Presumably they believe this should not be done at all.
- assblaster 8y ago
  Getting back to my original post, it doesn't matter if they believe it shouldn't be done at all. Machine learning will be utilized for defense/war/security, it's only a matter of when/by whom. Would these Alphabet employees prefer the machine learning contracts to go to Lockheed Martin/Amazon where ethics are not a priority, or would they have rather kept the development in house?
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    There are limits to the idea of trying to get inside and change the organization from within. To take the idea to a ridiculous extreme, you wouldn't tell someone that they should join ISIS and change it from within because Islamic terrorism is going to happen with or without them. I'd also question your bedrock assumption, that Google has much higher ethical standards than Raytheon. Why should we think this beyond "don't be evil" branding?
    - assblaster 8y ago
      Your ridiculous extreme is non-nonsensical as it is a straw man to intimate any equivalency between ISIS and Alphabet's machine learning division. As well, the Department of Defense often has open bidding for contracts for defense technologies. If Alphabet is competing for a contract, you can almost certainly be guaranteed that another corporation is bidding for the same contract. Individual employees have a say in how products are developed, it is not like employees must adhere to a rigid medieval orthodoxy or otherwise suffer death/decapitation/torture/rape.
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        Yes, I'm sure other companies are interested in the work. That does not mean engineers who think the work is morally repellent must lend their talents to it anyway.
      - posix_me_less 8y ago
        In a hierarchical corporation, individual employees execute the will of their superiors. They can tweak the implementation of the product, but in this case they most probably have no power to prevent it from being implemented.

emodendroket 8y ago

Presumably they believe this should not be done at all.

assblaster 8y ago
Getting back to my original post, it doesn't matter if they believe it shouldn't be done at all. Machine learning will be utilized for defense/war/security, it's only a matter of when/by whom. Would these Alphabet employees prefer the machine learning contracts to go to Lockheed Martin/Amazon where ethics are not a priority, or would they have rather kept the development in house?
- emodendroket 8y ago
  There are limits to the idea of trying to get inside and change the organization from within. To take the idea to a ridiculous extreme, you wouldn't tell someone that they should join ISIS and change it from within because Islamic terrorism is going to happen with or without them. I'd also question your bedrock assumption, that Google has much higher ethical standards than Raytheon. Why should we think this beyond "don't be evil" branding?
  - assblaster 8y ago
    Your ridiculous extreme is non-nonsensical as it is a straw man to intimate any equivalency between ISIS and Alphabet's machine learning division. As well, the Department of Defense often has open bidding for contracts for defense technologies. If Alphabet is competing for a contract, you can almost certainly be guaranteed that another corporation is bidding for the same contract. Individual employees have a say in how products are developed, it is not like employees must adhere to a rigid medieval orthodoxy or otherwise suffer death/decapitation/torture/rape.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Yes, I'm sure other companies are interested in the work. That does not mean engineers who think the work is morally repellent must lend their talents to it anyway.
    - posix_me_less 8y ago
      In a hierarchical corporation, individual employees execute the will of their superiors. They can tweak the implementation of the product, but in this case they most probably have no power to prevent it from being implemented.