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How are the US even complaining about human rights violations when so many serious ones happen right at home?! It's appalling to see all this

josefresco 8y ago
Human rights violations are wrong 100% of the time. Whataboutism doesn't change that.
- barrkel 8y ago
  Judge not, that ye be not judged. First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Criticism is a lot more effective when it's not hypocritical.
  - sykh 8y ago
    You both have a point. All societies that are sufficiently large have quirks and contradictions. You can find inequities and injustices in every country that is large enough. But people should still be free to criticize policies of other countries. Of course, when the hypocrisy is too great said criticisms falls on deaf ears. Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere.
    - josefresco 8y ago
      > Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere. This is better put. Hypocrisy should not blind us all.
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    The truthfulness of a statement (criticism, praise or anything else) is not invalidated by the behavior of the speaker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque "Tu quoque or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)."
    - magduf 8y ago
      You're talking about a logical fallacy. That doesn't carry much weight in the court of public opinion, where you're trying to actually convince someone of something. If the person doing the arguing is a complete hypocrite, it's pretty normal for others to not even bother listening to the argument. If you want to sway opinions, you need to have an advocate that people will believe.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  Parent is not whataboutism: it wasn't excusing other instances. It's a simple accusation of hypocrisy.
  - josefresco 8y ago
    Kissing cousins.
strathmeyer 8y ago
So you're saying... Americans should be pretty good at complaining about human rights violations??
kalleboo 8y ago
Takes one to know one?
vinay427 8y ago
There are also Americans complaining about these violations within the US. The more well-known include Guantanamo Bay, undocumented immigrants rights, and private prison abuses. The diplomatic arm of the government publicly complains about violations abroad because that's essentially its job, for better or for worse.
sschueller 8y ago
The US has still not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. "The United States had permitted the execution and life imprisonment of juvenile offenders, in contravention of the Article 37 of the Convention." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_th...

josefresco 8y ago

Human rights violations are wrong 100% of the time. Whataboutism doesn't change that.

barrkel 8y ago
Judge not, that ye be not judged. First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Criticism is a lot more effective when it's not hypocritical.
- sykh 8y ago
  You both have a point. All societies that are sufficiently large have quirks and contradictions. You can find inequities and injustices in every country that is large enough. But people should still be free to criticize policies of other countries. Of course, when the hypocrisy is too great said criticisms falls on deaf ears. Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere.
  - josefresco 8y ago
    > Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere. This is better put. Hypocrisy should not blind us all.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago
  The truthfulness of a statement (criticism, praise or anything else) is not invalidated by the behavior of the speaker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque "Tu quoque or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)."
  - magduf 8y ago
    You're talking about a logical fallacy. That doesn't carry much weight in the court of public opinion, where you're trying to actually convince someone of something. If the person doing the arguing is a complete hypocrite, it's pretty normal for others to not even bother listening to the argument. If you want to sway opinions, you need to have an advocate that people will believe.
wool_gather 8y ago
Parent is not whataboutism: it wasn't excusing other instances. It's a simple accusation of hypocrisy.
- josefresco 8y ago
  Kissing cousins.

strathmeyer 8y ago

So you're saying... Americans should be pretty good at complaining about human rights violations??

kalleboo 8y ago

Takes one to know one?

vinay427 8y ago

There are also Americans complaining about these violations within the US. The more well-known include Guantanamo Bay, undocumented immigrants rights, and private prison abuses. The diplomatic arm of the government publicly complains about violations abroad because that's essentially its job, for better or for worse.

sschueller 8y ago

The US has still not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. "The United States had permitted the execution and life imprisonment of juvenile offenders, in contravention of the Article 37 of the Convention." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_th...