4 ms·

I agree with this. A lot of people probably consider me arrogant and stubborn. Honestly, I don't care though. Arrogance and stubborn are only flaws when you'

by j_baker 16y ago

I agree with this. A lot of people probably consider me arrogant and stubborn. Honestly, I don't care though. Arrogance and stubborn are only flaws when you're wrong. On the other hand, being arrogant and stubborn about the truth is a virtue in my opinion.

thaumaturgy 16y ago
...depending on the presentation.
- j_baker 16y ago
  "If you're out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A poorly-presented correct idea is still correct. A well-presented incorrect idea is still incorrect.
omaranto 16y ago
Being stubborn about the truth sounds reasonable, but why is being arrogant about it a virtue?
petercooper 16y ago
I heard a line in a comedy the other night: "I never compromise. Because if you compromise, you're admitting you aren't right." On the other hand, being arrogant and stubborn about the truth is a virtue in my opinion. I take it you're not married. And if you are, please write a book about this policy and its effects if you use it frequently ;-) Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be as many versions of the "truth" as there are actors in the situation. Typically people don't deliberately argue positions they think are untrue. See crime witnesses or religious people for powerful examples.
- j_baker 16y ago
  Well, I'm about as married as any gay male can be. And my boyfriend has learned to put up with it. "Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be as many versions of the "truth" as there are actors in the situation." I'd strongly disagree. Different people may have different pieces of the truth (ie the truth could be "Either person x's approach or person y's approach will work"), they might have different perspectives on the truth (ie the truth could be "person x is right about a, b, c, and d but not e while person y is right about e, f, g, and h but not i"), or they might be arguing about a subject where there is no real truth (see religious people for powerful examples). But where the truth exists it is singular. When presented with conflicting ideas, the goal is to determine if one is correct or they both are correct. Throwing your hands in the air and saying "The truth is subjective" is a cop-out.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    It's a cop-out depending on your epistemological standpoint. I'm typically an empiricist so I appreciate the sentiment, but I recognize that other viewpoints of what truth and knowledge are could have merit. I'm not a big reader on philosophy and epistemology but merely the smorgasbord of "theories of truth" presented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth is enough for me to shy away from asserting that "where the truth exists it is singular." I sympathize with and have held the same position, but I've seen enough to cast doubt upon my gut feelings on the matter.
Mz 16y ago
I think there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And if you know for a fact that you are right, it can be difficult to back down, even in the face of enormous social pressure. I'm not comfortable with saying that arrogance and stubbornness about the truth is a virtue, but I would say that someone who is sincerely devoted to pursuing the truth and sharing it is at high risk of being viewed as arrogant and stubborn. I used to frequently get accused of being an egomaniac. More recently, I am fairly frequently accused of being a liar. I have concluded that, in my case, accusations of ego indicate people think it can be done, just not necessarily by me. But accusations that I am a liar mean they don't believe it can be done at all, by anyone. Since I have, in fact, accomplished what I claim to have done, I can't bring myself to claim otherwise merely to appease the critics. I do still wrestle with the possibility of whether or not I should simply shut up about it, but that brings up the dilemma that people who are sincerely interested in the information would also be denied. So far, I have been unable to reconcile myself to that route. I still have no good answers. But I wrestle with such questions a lot.
- gruseom 16y ago
  Now I'm curious. What have you done that people believed couldn't be done at all?
  - Mz 16y ago
    Got well. (Or at least healthier. There is still room for improvement, which I am working on. I waffle between how I refer to it.) http://www.healthgazelle.com http://www.healthgazelle.com
    - gruseom 16y ago
      Good for you. I admire people who take responsibility that way. Our "health care system" (more properly termed "disease management industry") is so stacked against this that it requires genuine struggle. It's not surprising that you would be accused of lying, either; that's cognitive dissonance 101. Not ideal, but still a good trade.
- 16y ago

by j_baker 16y ago

thaumaturgy 16y ago

...depending on the presentation.

j_baker 16y ago
"If you're out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A poorly-presented correct idea is still correct. A well-presented incorrect idea is still incorrect.

omaranto 16y ago

Being stubborn about the truth sounds reasonable, but why is being arrogant about it a virtue?

petercooper 16y ago

I heard a line in a comedy the other night: "I never compromise. Because if you compromise, you're admitting you aren't right." On the other hand, being arrogant and stubborn about the truth is a virtue in my opinion. I take it you're not married. And if you are, please write a book about this policy and its effects if you use it frequently ;-) Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be as many versions of the "truth" as there are actors in the situation. Typically people don't deliberately argue positions they think are untrue. See crime witnesses or religious people for powerful examples.

j_baker 16y ago
Well, I'm about as married as any gay male can be. And my boyfriend has learned to put up with it. "Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be as many versions of the "truth" as there are actors in the situation." I'd strongly disagree. Different people may have different pieces of the truth (ie the truth could be "Either person x's approach or person y's approach will work"), they might have different perspectives on the truth (ie the truth could be "person x is right about a, b, c, and d but not e while person y is right about e, f, g, and h but not i"), or they might be arguing about a subject where there is no real truth (see religious people for powerful examples). But where the truth exists it is singular. When presented with conflicting ideas, the goal is to determine if one is correct or they both are correct. Throwing your hands in the air and saying "The truth is subjective" is a cop-out.
- petercooper 16y ago
  It's a cop-out depending on your epistemological standpoint. I'm typically an empiricist so I appreciate the sentiment, but I recognize that other viewpoints of what truth and knowledge are could have merit. I'm not a big reader on philosophy and epistemology but merely the smorgasbord of "theories of truth" presented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth is enough for me to shy away from asserting that "where the truth exists it is singular." I sympathize with and have held the same position, but I've seen enough to cast doubt upon my gut feelings on the matter.

Mz 16y ago

I think there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And if you know for a fact that you are right, it can be difficult to back down, even in the face of enormous social pressure. I'm not comfortable with saying that arrogance and stubbornness about the truth is a virtue, but I would say that someone who is sincerely devoted to pursuing the truth and sharing it is at high risk of being viewed as arrogant and stubborn. I used to frequently get accused of being an egomaniac. More recently, I am fairly frequently accused of being a liar. I have concluded that, in my case, accusations of ego indicate people think it can be done, just not necessarily by me. But accusations that I am a liar mean they don't believe it can be done at all, by anyone. Since I have, in fact, accomplished what I claim to have done, I can't bring myself to claim otherwise merely to appease the critics. I do still wrestle with the possibility of whether or not I should simply shut up about it, but that brings up the dilemma that people who are sincerely interested in the information would also be denied. So far, I have been unable to reconcile myself to that route. I still have no good answers. But I wrestle with such questions a lot.

gruseom 16y ago
Now I'm curious. What have you done that people believed couldn't be done at all?
- Mz 16y ago
  Got well. (Or at least healthier. There is still room for improvement, which I am working on. I waffle between how I refer to it.) http://www.healthgazelle.com http://www.healthgazelle.com
  - gruseom 16y ago
    Good for you. I admire people who take responsibility that way. Our "health care system" (more properly termed "disease management industry") is so stacked against this that it requires genuine struggle. It's not surprising that you would be accused of lying, either; that's cognitive dissonance 101. Not ideal, but still a good trade.
16y ago