7 ms·

> "The information fed back to Google includes barometric pressure readings so it can work out, for example, which level of a shopping mall you are on." I scof

> "The information fed back to Google includes barometric pressure readings so it can work out, for example, which level of a shopping mall you are on." I scoffed, but this is actually a thing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431287/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431287/ (It's also useful for weather observations, see the old PressureNET.io site for an opt-in version.) Anyway, my monthly mobile data usage for Google services is 110 MB and that's including the map tiles, Google Play services and Play Store (I have location history disabled). I'd be interested in whether anyone is having a gig of their data used.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
iopuy 8y ago
A known avenue of data acquisition is to wait until a wifi connections to transmit large amounts of data.
- askvictor 8y ago
  It is, however, the article states: > The experts, from computer and software corporation Oracle, claim Google is draining roughly one gigabyte of mobile data monthly from Android phone users’ accounts as it snoops in the background, collecting information to help advertisers. Then goes on to give a cost breakdown of how much this hypothetical data download is costing Australian's via their mobile data connections.
  - ehsankia 8y ago
    The article does state that, but there's zero evidence backing it. It also doesn't help that said experts are from Oracle, which aren't really the most unbiased source when it comes to Google news.
    - askvictor 8y ago
      Well, that's kind of my point. Yes, you could hypothetically transmit 1 GB/month batched to use wifi, but the article in question is saying it's using your mobile data (to sow FUD). There is no evidence that Google is sending 1GB/month of data over wifi either.
- dx034 8y ago
  My Android phone shows me data usage on wifi as well and I don't see these spikes.
godelmachine 8y ago
Are barometric sensors commonplace in smartphones?
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  Almost all android flagships have a barometer.
- zik 8y ago
  Most flagship phones have them.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Yes, and they're needed because GPS is much less accurate in the vertical direction. Even the fitbit in my pocket has a barometric sensor, to be able to count stairs.
  - askvictor 8y ago
    GPS _is_ less accurate vertically in certain circumstances (namely when you only have a lock on 3 satellites, as there are two possible altitudes you could be at), but usually this doesn't matter unless you're flying - otherwise just figure you're on the Earth's surface, and cross-reference map data for the altitude. Inside multi-storey buildings it's a different story, but you won't be getting a GPS signal indoors anyway.
    - michaelt 8y ago
      GPS _is_ less accurate vertically in certain circumstances GPS is less vertically accurate all the time, due to 'dilution of precision', which depends on the position of satellites in the sky [1]. When you move x distance horizontally, unless you have a very poor view of the sky some satellites will get closer and others further away. When you move the same distance vertically, all satellites will get closer but by differing amounts [2]. As vertical moves produce a smaller change in the measured data, noise in the measured data has greater impact on the vertical measurement. just figure you're on the Earth's surface, and cross-reference map data for the altitude Once GPS data reaches an app on a phone, they're free to discard the height data, true. But the GPS reception module itself doesn't contain a detailed elevation map of the earth; there isn't enough memory to store a detailed map, or any way to push out map updates. usually this doesn't matter unless you're flying The main application I've seen for height data is sports trackers. For example, cycling and running up steep hills is hard work compared to running the same distance on the flat. Some trackers will even set challenges like climbing 2000m in a month [3]. Things like drone altitude control also like having height data, obviously. [1] http://www2.unb.ca/gge/Resources/gpsworld.may99.pdf http://www2.unb.ca/gge/Resources/gpsworld.may99.pdf [2] Because you can only see satellites above you, never below. Unless you're high enough that the planet stops getting in the way. [3] https://www.strava.com/challenges https://www.strava.com/challenges
_o_ 8y ago
I can tell you a bit more: - after stopped using Google Play services/framework and replaced it with microg, battery life improved for 30% with same programs beeing run and same settings without losing any functionality, this is the most obvious part that something is going on and it is hard to deny. I never used (while on google play) any syncing, gps fix and so on. Meaning exactly same settings, same programs, no google applicatios (maps,...) same AOSP rom, not even factory resetted in between, just no Google Play presence on same phone. I switched to microg as I have figured out that whatever I do can't stop the Google Play services/framework communicating with google (firewall, xprivacy,...) - there are hidden sync in Google Play that can't be disabled and are syncing regardless of your settings (https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus5/comments/270axz/enabled_reveal_hidden_sync_in_greenify_andgot_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus5/comments/270axz/enabled_reve...), like Location reporting (not the one visible, there is second one, you will need root to see it, you can disable it but it will automatically turn back on after a while). - DNS is defaulting to google dns 8.8.8.8, it is overriden in most cases by router settings but still. It is up to each person to decide what this means but I would seriously suggest looking at https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/
- tunap 8y ago
  "like Location reporting (not the one visible, there is second one, you will need root to see it, you can disable it but it will automatically turn back on after a while" Not if you delete the apk from /system/apps (?and correponding /data/data folder?). Instability follows if you click settings>location or when apps still allowed location access call for it, however. Am so tired of this ctap, I don't use G services(runninh AICP w/ many apks removed). The real challenge is removing Webview, most apps crash despite having no need for web access/functionality.
brylie 8y ago
I would really like to explicitly tell Google to stop tracking my location. Period. Despite what might be in their terms of service,this tracking is a violation of privacy. I have never given informed consent to such locstion tracking, and still get prompts to 'rate this location' despite having explicitly disabled location history. Google location tracking is increasingly unethical.
- askvictor 8y ago
  I think your realistic options are to move the EU or to stop using Google. Maybe one day they'll offer a subscription based fee for it's services, but for now you pay with your data.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    France and Germany are looking pretty good these days.
    - unpopular42 8y ago
      Oh yeah, you might get mugged and killed if you go to a wrong area of Paris at night, or your wife may get raped in Germany and the police will cover it up because immigrants can't be touched. But you'll be safe from the evil Google, so you've got that going for you which is nice.
      - inferiorhuman 8y ago
        What?
      - bigbluedots 8y ago
        [citation needed]
      - stochastic_monk 8y ago
        My family never had problems in Paris, and they lived there quite happily for four years. I even did an internship at UParis-Sud. It’s a wonderful place in my experience.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

iopuy 8y ago

A known avenue of data acquisition is to wait until a wifi connections to transmit large amounts of data.

askvictor 8y ago
It is, however, the article states: > The experts, from computer and software corporation Oracle, claim Google is draining roughly one gigabyte of mobile data monthly from Android phone users’ accounts as it snoops in the background, collecting information to help advertisers. Then goes on to give a cost breakdown of how much this hypothetical data download is costing Australian's via their mobile data connections.
- ehsankia 8y ago
  The article does state that, but there's zero evidence backing it. It also doesn't help that said experts are from Oracle, which aren't really the most unbiased source when it comes to Google news.
  - askvictor 8y ago
    Well, that's kind of my point. Yes, you could hypothetically transmit 1 GB/month batched to use wifi, but the article in question is saying it's using your mobile data (to sow FUD). There is no evidence that Google is sending 1GB/month of data over wifi either.
dx034 8y ago
My Android phone shows me data usage on wifi as well and I don't see these spikes.

godelmachine 8y ago

Are barometric sensors commonplace in smartphones?

dingo_bat 8y ago
Almost all android flagships have a barometer.
zik 8y ago
Most flagship phones have them.
greglindahl 8y ago
Yes, and they're needed because GPS is much less accurate in the vertical direction. Even the fitbit in my pocket has a barometric sensor, to be able to count stairs.
- askvictor 8y ago
  GPS _is_ less accurate vertically in certain circumstances (namely when you only have a lock on 3 satellites, as there are two possible altitudes you could be at), but usually this doesn't matter unless you're flying - otherwise just figure you're on the Earth's surface, and cross-reference map data for the altitude. Inside multi-storey buildings it's a different story, but you won't be getting a GPS signal indoors anyway.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    GPS _is_ less accurate vertically in certain circumstances GPS is less vertically accurate all the time, due to 'dilution of precision', which depends on the position of satellites in the sky [1]. When you move x distance horizontally, unless you have a very poor view of the sky some satellites will get closer and others further away. When you move the same distance vertically, all satellites will get closer but by differing amounts [2]. As vertical moves produce a smaller change in the measured data, noise in the measured data has greater impact on the vertical measurement. just figure you're on the Earth's surface, and cross-reference map data for the altitude Once GPS data reaches an app on a phone, they're free to discard the height data, true. But the GPS reception module itself doesn't contain a detailed elevation map of the earth; there isn't enough memory to store a detailed map, or any way to push out map updates. usually this doesn't matter unless you're flying The main application I've seen for height data is sports trackers. For example, cycling and running up steep hills is hard work compared to running the same distance on the flat. Some trackers will even set challenges like climbing 2000m in a month [3]. Things like drone altitude control also like having height data, obviously. [1] http://www2.unb.ca/gge/Resources/gpsworld.may99.pdf http://www2.unb.ca/gge/Resources/gpsworld.may99.pdf [2] Because you can only see satellites above you, never below. Unless you're high enough that the planet stops getting in the way. [3] https://www.strava.com/challenges https://www.strava.com/challenges

_o_ 8y ago

I can tell you a bit more: - after stopped using Google Play services/framework and replaced it with microg, battery life improved for 30% with same programs beeing run and same settings without losing any functionality, this is the most obvious part that something is going on and it is hard to deny. I never used (while on google play) any syncing, gps fix and so on. Meaning exactly same settings, same programs, no google applicatios (maps,...) same AOSP rom, not even factory resetted in between, just no Google Play presence on same phone. I switched to microg as I have figured out that whatever I do can't stop the Google Play services/framework communicating with google (firewall, xprivacy,...) - there are hidden sync in Google Play that can't be disabled and are syncing regardless of your settings (https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus5/comments/270axz/enabled_reveal_hidden_sync_in_greenify_andgot_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus5/comments/270axz/enabled_reve...), like Location reporting (not the one visible, there is second one, you will need root to see it, you can disable it but it will automatically turn back on after a while). - DNS is defaulting to google dns 8.8.8.8, it is overriden in most cases by router settings but still. It is up to each person to decide what this means but I would seriously suggest looking at https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/

tunap 8y ago
"like Location reporting (not the one visible, there is second one, you will need root to see it, you can disable it but it will automatically turn back on after a while" Not if you delete the apk from /system/apps (?and correponding /data/data folder?). Instability follows if you click settings>location or when apps still allowed location access call for it, however. Am so tired of this ctap, I don't use G services(runninh AICP w/ many apks removed). The real challenge is removing Webview, most apps crash despite having no need for web access/functionality.

brylie 8y ago

I would really like to explicitly tell Google to stop tracking my location. Period. Despite what might be in their terms of service,this tracking is a violation of privacy. I have never given informed consent to such locstion tracking, and still get prompts to 'rate this location' despite having explicitly disabled location history. Google location tracking is increasingly unethical.

askvictor 8y ago
I think your realistic options are to move the EU or to stop using Google. Maybe one day they'll offer a subscription based fee for it's services, but for now you pay with your data.
- stochastic_monk 8y ago
  France and Germany are looking pretty good these days.
  - unpopular42 8y ago
    Oh yeah, you might get mugged and killed if you go to a wrong area of Paris at night, or your wife may get raped in Germany and the police will cover it up because immigrants can't be touched. But you'll be safe from the evil Google, so you've got that going for you which is nice.
    - inferiorhuman 8y ago
      What?
    - bigbluedots 8y ago
      [citation needed]
    - stochastic_monk 8y ago
      My family never had problems in Paris, and they lived there quite happily for four years. I even did an internship at UParis-Sud. It’s a wonderful place in my experience.