6 ms·

I know the feeling. As a very young boy I saw an anime adaptation of The Little Mermaid that was a faithful adaptation of Hans Christian Anderson's version and

I know the feeling. As a very young boy I saw an anime adaptation of The Little Mermaid that was a faithful adaptation of Hans Christian Anderson's version and thought it was incredibly moving. A few years later the Disney version came out, and the production value was incredible while the story and all meaning was just lost. And the messages Disney sends to young girls, in particular, are horrible.

jjeaff 8y ago
The messages that old Disney movies send to girls were a product of their time. I think the more modern Disney movies send excellent messages to girls.
- cm2012 8y ago
  Certainly better for girls than almost anything anime.
  - Treegarden 8y ago
    Whats the message in all three of them? I watch neiter disney princess movies nor animes.
    - cm2012 8y ago
      It's not exactly one message - this is across hundreds of film and tv shows. But basically: 1) Old Disney - The best thing that can happen to girls is finding prince charming. 2) New Disney - Girls are just regular protagonists, sometimes purposefully going against the tropes. 3) Anime - Incredibly variety, top 5% is amazing re: girls or boys as protagonists, but a lot of it written for teenage boys and has women as side characters for sex appeal.
      - olavk 8y ago
        Re old disney: I suppose you are thinking about Snow White and Cinderella. Note that the prince play a very small role, everything is about the journey of the girl. If it was gender–swapped you would say princess charming was purely objectified as a prize to be obtained. And some classics like Alice in Wonderland does not fit the template at all.
        cm2012 8y ago
        I agree that old disney has a worse reputation on this stuff than it deserves.
  - bo1024 8y ago
    Oh man, you have got to watch some Studio Ghibli. Try Spirited Away or Howl's Moving Castle. (edit: based on another of your comments you seem to be fully aware that there is great non-sexist non-objectifying anime out there, so your "almost any" comment is confusing. I don't know much about anime, but I've been watching some of the highest-recommended and rated films and they've all been great about this in my opinion.)
    - cm2012 8y ago
      The best ones are great, but most are not. Sturgeons law and all that. My favorite shows are anime.
    - dagw 8y ago
      On the topic of Ghibli, I just finished watching Ronja, the Robber's Daughter with my 8 year old daughter and it was a surprisingly great adaptation. I highly recommend it.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
      The OP said "almost anything anime" - almost. The majority of anime are not Studio Ghibli. We could be discussing anime (and manga) tropes for a very, very long time but there's a clear trend of a very disturbing portrayal of women (actually, "girls") in anime. "Oversexualised" only begins to scratch the surface. While there are certainly mature, grown-up anime with characters that make sense (try Your Name for something newer than Ghibli) a great big chunk of anime are just childish.
      - bo1024 8y ago
        Two different measures on the same set can put "almost all" their probability in different places. I guess it depends how you are discovering anime. Speaking as someone who started at zero and just started watching the most popular and highly-rated films, I encountered very little that's childish and oversexualized -- quite the opposite as compared to classic Disney. So via my discovery process, almost anything anime is great and compares well to Disney for kids. So from my limited experience, I think dismissing the genre like that with a negative stereotype is misleading.
- drblast 8y ago
  It's not the movies, but more the TV shows, toys, endless marketing, and crap like this: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may/16/disney-princess-merida-makeover https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may/16/disney-princess... It seems to me that if a hyper-sexualized/glamorous Princess Collection will make 2% more profit for Disney then that's what's going to happen regardless of how many young girls feel inadequate about their looks and end up with eating disorders. And yeah, sure, they'll kowtow for a while when there's a backlash, and maybe you'll get a plot like in Frozen about sisters who are supportive of each other. But that lags the culture by like 10-15 years and only happens when there's profit in bucking the damsel-in-distress princess tropes that Disney itself is mostly responsible for. Maybe once they could be ahead of the game instead of patting themselves on the back for finally reversing long-standing trends of their own creation. Wouldn't it be nice to have a back catalog you could be proud of, rather than have to apologize for?
- whoopdedo 8y ago
  The Little Mermaid was made in 1989. Thirty years ago, yes. But far past the time when gender stereotypes began to be challenged.
PakG1 8y ago
Do you remember what the anime adaptation was called?
- tim333 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen%27s_The_Little_Mermaid_(1975_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen%27s_Th... ?
da02 8y ago
What were the messages and ideas of the original Anderson The Little Mermaid?
- olavk 8y ago
  Unrequited love will make life hell and there is nothing you can do about it. But if you are pure of heart you may at least get eternal life when you die. The story has some pretty strong religious themes, where her love for the prince is coupled with a longing for an eternal soul (which mer-people does not have). If she can make the prince love her, she will receive an eternal soul. In the end this does not happen and she kills herself, but the angels nevertheless grant her an eternal soul due to her selfless love. The story is incredibly sad, and I find it strange when people blame Disney for bowdlerizing it. A faithful retelling would have been unwatchable and probably incomprehensible for a modern American audience.
  - da02 8y ago
    That seems common: a foreign culture alters a pre-existing idea. Like how the Japanese developed a tradition of KFC with Xmas. Or how Chinese Food in America is nothing like authentic Chinese food. What did you think of the Danny Kaye movie about Hans Christian Andersen?
    - olavk 8y ago
      Hans Christian Andersen himself altered and retold existing folktales and added his own slant and morals. Among other things he was heavily inspired by Arabian Nights but adapted the themes to a Scandinavian setting. Nothing new under the sun here. I have not seen the movie.
  - dagw 8y ago
    but the angels nevertheless grant her an eternal soul due to her selfless love. But first she has to spend 300 years in 'purgatory'. Also don't forget the closing paragraph where we learn that every time a child misbehaves the angels add 1 day to her stay in purgatory and every day the child is a 'good' child and obeys her parents a day is removed. So unless you want the Little Mermaid to never get into heaven you better be a well behaved and happy child.

jjeaff 8y ago

The messages that old Disney movies send to girls were a product of their time. I think the more modern Disney movies send excellent messages to girls.

cm2012 8y ago
Certainly better for girls than almost anything anime.
- Treegarden 8y ago
  Whats the message in all three of them? I watch neiter disney princess movies nor animes.
  - cm2012 8y ago
    It's not exactly one message - this is across hundreds of film and tv shows. But basically: 1) Old Disney - The best thing that can happen to girls is finding prince charming. 2) New Disney - Girls are just regular protagonists, sometimes purposefully going against the tropes. 3) Anime - Incredibly variety, top 5% is amazing re: girls or boys as protagonists, but a lot of it written for teenage boys and has women as side characters for sex appeal.
    - olavk 8y ago
      Re old disney: I suppose you are thinking about Snow White and Cinderella. Note that the prince play a very small role, everything is about the journey of the girl. If it was gender–swapped you would say princess charming was purely objectified as a prize to be obtained. And some classics like Alice in Wonderland does not fit the template at all.
      - cm2012 8y ago
        I agree that old disney has a worse reputation on this stuff than it deserves.
- bo1024 8y ago
  Oh man, you have got to watch some Studio Ghibli. Try Spirited Away or Howl's Moving Castle. (edit: based on another of your comments you seem to be fully aware that there is great non-sexist non-objectifying anime out there, so your "almost any" comment is confusing. I don't know much about anime, but I've been watching some of the highest-recommended and rated films and they've all been great about this in my opinion.)
  - cm2012 8y ago
    The best ones are great, but most are not. Sturgeons law and all that. My favorite shows are anime.
  - dagw 8y ago
    On the topic of Ghibli, I just finished watching Ronja, the Robber's Daughter with my 8 year old daughter and it was a surprisingly great adaptation. I highly recommend it.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    The OP said "almost anything anime" - almost. The majority of anime are not Studio Ghibli. We could be discussing anime (and manga) tropes for a very, very long time but there's a clear trend of a very disturbing portrayal of women (actually, "girls") in anime. "Oversexualised" only begins to scratch the surface. While there are certainly mature, grown-up anime with characters that make sense (try Your Name for something newer than Ghibli) a great big chunk of anime are just childish.
    - bo1024 8y ago
      Two different measures on the same set can put "almost all" their probability in different places. I guess it depends how you are discovering anime. Speaking as someone who started at zero and just started watching the most popular and highly-rated films, I encountered very little that's childish and oversexualized -- quite the opposite as compared to classic Disney. So via my discovery process, almost anything anime is great and compares well to Disney for kids. So from my limited experience, I think dismissing the genre like that with a negative stereotype is misleading.
drblast 8y ago
It's not the movies, but more the TV shows, toys, endless marketing, and crap like this: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may/16/disney-princess-merida-makeover https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may/16/disney-princess... It seems to me that if a hyper-sexualized/glamorous Princess Collection will make 2% more profit for Disney then that's what's going to happen regardless of how many young girls feel inadequate about their looks and end up with eating disorders. And yeah, sure, they'll kowtow for a while when there's a backlash, and maybe you'll get a plot like in Frozen about sisters who are supportive of each other. But that lags the culture by like 10-15 years and only happens when there's profit in bucking the damsel-in-distress princess tropes that Disney itself is mostly responsible for. Maybe once they could be ahead of the game instead of patting themselves on the back for finally reversing long-standing trends of their own creation. Wouldn't it be nice to have a back catalog you could be proud of, rather than have to apologize for?
whoopdedo 8y ago
The Little Mermaid was made in 1989. Thirty years ago, yes. But far past the time when gender stereotypes began to be challenged.

PakG1 8y ago

Do you remember what the anime adaptation was called?

tim333 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen%27s_The_Little_Mermaid_(1975_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen%27s_Th... ?

da02 8y ago

What were the messages and ideas of the original Anderson The Little Mermaid?

olavk 8y ago
Unrequited love will make life hell and there is nothing you can do about it. But if you are pure of heart you may at least get eternal life when you die. The story has some pretty strong religious themes, where her love for the prince is coupled with a longing for an eternal soul (which mer-people does not have). If she can make the prince love her, she will receive an eternal soul. In the end this does not happen and she kills herself, but the angels nevertheless grant her an eternal soul due to her selfless love. The story is incredibly sad, and I find it strange when people blame Disney for bowdlerizing it. A faithful retelling would have been unwatchable and probably incomprehensible for a modern American audience.
- da02 8y ago
  That seems common: a foreign culture alters a pre-existing idea. Like how the Japanese developed a tradition of KFC with Xmas. Or how Chinese Food in America is nothing like authentic Chinese food. What did you think of the Danny Kaye movie about Hans Christian Andersen?
  - olavk 8y ago
    Hans Christian Andersen himself altered and retold existing folktales and added his own slant and morals. Among other things he was heavily inspired by Arabian Nights but adapted the themes to a Scandinavian setting. Nothing new under the sun here. I have not seen the movie.
- dagw 8y ago
  but the angels nevertheless grant her an eternal soul due to her selfless love. But first she has to spend 300 years in 'purgatory'. Also don't forget the closing paragraph where we learn that every time a child misbehaves the angels add 1 day to her stay in purgatory and every day the child is a 'good' child and obeys her parents a day is removed. So unless you want the Little Mermaid to never get into heaven you better be a well behaved and happy child.