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Here's the thing: leaving a car running and unoccupied is, from an engineering perspective, completely stupid. Running a car on idle for a long time basically

Here's the thing: leaving a car running and unoccupied is, from an engineering perspective, completely stupid. Running a car on idle for a long time basically slowly degrades it. It's just sitting there getting hot and wasting gas. Without adequate cooling, the engine will overheat. And if you have multiple catalytic converters, the car can explode from built up gases. Many manuals explicitly state not to idle the car for more than 10-20 minutes. You don't even need to idle it. Many cars today have automatic engine shut off and start when the car is stopped at a red light. New cars could easily add this to prevent idling. Now consider the non-technical reasons not to let it idle. One, someone can steal it. Two, it's wasting gas. Three, it's pumping harmful gases into the atmosphere and creating smog. Four, someone could die from carbon monoxide. The solution is simple. The default should be to turn off the car if the keys are gone after idling for 10 minutes, with an override switch to let it idle for, let's say an hour. After an hour you have to flip the switch again. Regardless of whether you think this is necessary, there are hundreds of such modifications already that add up to make cars safer and more reliable. You can't switch into or out of park or reverse without depressing the brake. You can't remove the keys without being in park. Your can't operate Bluetooth controls while the car is in motion. So it's not like these changes are new or difficult. Automakers add them over time as they see the need. But when they don't act, it's up to us to pass legislation to require them.

rpcope1 8y ago
> Running a car on idle for a long time basically slowly degrades it. It's just sitting there getting hot and wasting gas. Without adequate cooling, the engine will overheat. And if you have multiple catalytic converters, the car can explode from built up gases. Many manuals explicitly state not to idle the car for more than 10-20 minutes. Do you have a citation for any of this? I think letting an engine idle for extended periods of time does run up the hours on the engine (if you've got the sort of engine where you would even think about adding an hour meter, anyways), but especially if not under a load, I would very, _very_ surprised if you incurred actual damage letting the engine just run. The cooling system on every car I've ever encountered is more the sufficient to keep the engine at the correct operating temperature indefinitely, even if it's real hot out.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  A quick Google search has many different sources, none of which are scientific. One is all the manufacturers that warn against idling, for various reasons based on the particular model, probably. Two is the increased fuel mixture in cold weather, leading to increased wear on cylinder walls from running rich until the engine reaches temp. Three is that cars are designed to operate under median load, not idle: half of how a car cools its engine is air passing over radiator plates, and that doesn't happen when the car is stopped. The engine actually has to work harder to keep the fans going in hopes of keeping temps down (in hot environments it'll just run hard constantly). And in winter it's the opposite problem, with oil viscosity and antifreeze working at potentially the end of their design spec to both keep the engine lubricated and coolant circulating. If it had load it could keep itself warmer easier, rather than depend on all these extra factors to keep from damaging the engine. And all of this for gasoline cars; diesels have a much more difficult time, especially if they're supposed to be fuel efficient. Now, obviously I'm not claiming idling your car is going to ruin your engine, cars idle all the time with no problem. It's just not at all what the car was designed to do most of the time, and it will cause undue wear in various conditions over time. At the very least an hour of idle is equivalent to driving 25 miles (according to Ford Fleet) and your gas mileage will be worse.
frankus 8y ago
I was thinking the same thing. My car shuts off if you come to a stop in D, but for some reason it doesn’t when you shift to P, even though there’s even less reason to leave the engine idling in Park.

rpcope1 8y ago

> Running a car on idle for a long time basically slowly degrades it. It's just sitting there getting hot and wasting gas. Without adequate cooling, the engine will overheat. And if you have multiple catalytic converters, the car can explode from built up gases. Many manuals explicitly state not to idle the car for more than 10-20 minutes. Do you have a citation for any of this? I think letting an engine idle for extended periods of time does run up the hours on the engine (if you've got the sort of engine where you would even think about adding an hour meter, anyways), but especially if not under a load, I would very, _very_ surprised if you incurred actual damage letting the engine just run. The cooling system on every car I've ever encountered is more the sufficient to keep the engine at the correct operating temperature indefinitely, even if it's real hot out.

peterwwillis 8y ago
A quick Google search has many different sources, none of which are scientific. One is all the manufacturers that warn against idling, for various reasons based on the particular model, probably. Two is the increased fuel mixture in cold weather, leading to increased wear on cylinder walls from running rich until the engine reaches temp. Three is that cars are designed to operate under median load, not idle: half of how a car cools its engine is air passing over radiator plates, and that doesn't happen when the car is stopped. The engine actually has to work harder to keep the fans going in hopes of keeping temps down (in hot environments it'll just run hard constantly). And in winter it's the opposite problem, with oil viscosity and antifreeze working at potentially the end of their design spec to both keep the engine lubricated and coolant circulating. If it had load it could keep itself warmer easier, rather than depend on all these extra factors to keep from damaging the engine. And all of this for gasoline cars; diesels have a much more difficult time, especially if they're supposed to be fuel efficient. Now, obviously I'm not claiming idling your car is going to ruin your engine, cars idle all the time with no problem. It's just not at all what the car was designed to do most of the time, and it will cause undue wear in various conditions over time. At the very least an hour of idle is equivalent to driving 25 miles (according to Ford Fleet) and your gas mileage will be worse.

frankus 8y ago

I was thinking the same thing. My car shuts off if you come to a stop in D, but for some reason it doesn’t when you shift to P, even though there’s even less reason to leave the engine idling in Park.